Author Topic: Anyone have a Pietta 1851 (Sheriff ?) renamed Marine 44  (Read 3381 times)

Offline jaxenro

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Re: Anyone have a Pietta 1851 (Sheriff ?) renamed Marine 44
« Reply #45 on: September 20, 2017, 01:46:30 AM »
Prototype

I am going by what they called them at the time. The 61 navy kind of kills the whole octoganal barrels are navy thing as does the "pocket of navy caliber" thing

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Offline Captainkirk

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Re: Anyone have a Pietta 1851 (Sheriff ?) renamed Marine 44
« Reply #46 on: September 20, 2017, 09:11:18 AM »
Prototype

I am going by what they called them at the time. The 61 navy kind of kills the whole octoganal barrels are navy thing as does the "pocket of navy caliber" thing

Obviously we don't know what was running through ol' Sam's head...but if the prototype .40 HAD moved into limited production, would that have skewed the whole 'Navy-caliber-is-.36' concept? Or would the Navy have rejected the new firearm as 'not meeting specification' and forced it to become a 'civilian' model?
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Offline jaxenro

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Re: Anyone have a Pietta 1851 (Sheriff ?) renamed Marine 44
« Reply #47 on: September 20, 2017, 10:09:45 AM »
Plus the CSA army settled on the 36 as the army cartridge. But I think Remington used navy for 36 and army for 44 as well

Might even go back to Pattersons and the Texas navy days I'm not sure

I think the first 1860 Army's used the navy sized grip also so there were a few transitional and experimental models like the 40.

Personally I wish someone would offer everything as components you could pick and choose from. Three frame sizes (pocket, belt, holster) each in rebated and non. Three barrel types(octoganal, round, dragoon). Long, short, and birdshead grips. Fluted and non fluted cylinders both belted and not. Plus multiple barrel lengths

Then I could order a pocket frame 36 caliber with two different barrel lengths and three different cylinders as one gun
 
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Offline G Dog

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Re: Anyone have a Pietta 1851 (Sheriff ?) renamed Marine 44
« Reply #48 on: September 20, 2017, 12:50:29 PM »
Prototype

Yep, “prototype”.  It hasn’t earned a more specific designation until it goes into production and gets used. 

Offline Hewy

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Re: Anyone have a Pietta 1851 (Sheriff ?) renamed Marine 44
« Reply #49 on: September 20, 2017, 05:33:51 PM »
Colt did not produce the gun only as a Prototype. Pietta probably saw the .44 as a marketing tool
for more variety, i.e. the brass .44 Navy looks like a .36 Navy so had tp give it different name, I guess.
Sheriff seemed to be a good old West name.
I fiquered if no Italian maker was making anything near it ,and I happen to like shorter barrels guns,
why not. It suits me fine ,I won't make a show guy out of it, going to  (@+
Of course had to change the name to Marine 44 only because it had some roots in the Navy which the gun it aint.
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« Last Edit: September 20, 2017, 05:45:57 PM by Hewy »
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Offline G Dog

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Re: Anyone have a Pietta 1851 (Sheriff ?) renamed Marine 44
« Reply #50 on: September 20, 2017, 06:38:37 PM »
Hi Hewy – my reference was only to that .40 X-gun pictured above.  Your new one can be lifted up and shot any time you say when.  That’s real enough for anybody.  I like the looks of that thing and it’s a power house too. 

A Navy grip frame on a .44 makes a lot of sense - as later designs would demonstrate (around about 1873).  Yours would have made quite a coat-pocket gun back in the day.  I like it and am pleased you do too.

Offline sourdough

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Re: Anyone have a Pietta 1851 (Sheriff ?) renamed Marine 44
« Reply #51 on: September 21, 2017, 02:46:48 PM »


Personally I wish someone would offer everything as components you could pick and choose from. Three frame sizes (pocket, belt, holster) each in rebated and non. Three barrel types (octagonal, round, dragoon). Long, short, and birdshead grips. Fluted and non fluted cylinders both belted and not. Plus multiple barrel lengths.

Then I could order a pocket frame 36 caliber with two different barrel lengths and three different cylinders as one gun

Jax, that is quite a wish list! I think that a manufacturer would have to have a staggering parts inventory, and that any "a la carte" pistol would be very expensive because of that.

Pietta currently produces a Dance .44 on a modified 1851 Navy frame. The non-rebated cylinder is larger in diameter than their Navy .36 cylinder and the water table has been lowered to accommodate this. It uses a different length hand than their 1851 Navy .36.

Fellow forum member Rcampb6131 has a Dance .44 and has confirmed this to me.

Your proposed Pocket Frame .36 would have to have the same modifications with the use of a non-rebated .36 cylinder, and I am not sure that a rebated cylinder would interchange. The replica Pocket Navy/Pocket Police .36 pistols all have rebated cylinders and cut water tables like the original Colt models.

Just my $.02, sir.

Regards,

Jim

Offline jaxenro

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Re: Anyone have a Pietta 1851 (Sheriff ?) renamed Marine 44
« Reply #52 on: September 21, 2017, 03:36:22 PM »
No I was thinking of a 36 rebated and a 31 non. Essentially what Colt produced. What would be different would be a rebated holster (dragoon) frame and a belted cylinder for that. Maybe a 54 caliber?

Btw I wasn't critical of your marine 44 I like the guns just not calling them navy.
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Offline sourdough

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Re: Anyone have a Pietta 1851 (Sheriff ?) renamed Marine 44
« Reply #53 on: September 21, 2017, 04:33:31 PM »
No I was thinking of a 36 rebated and a 31 non. Essentially what Colt produced. What would be different would be a rebated holster (dragoon) frame and a belted cylinder for that. Maybe a 54 caliber?

I understand now. Imagine a Dragoon .54 with birdshead grips.  :-H

Quote
Btw I wasn't critical of your marine 44 I like the guns just not calling them navy.

Not my Marine .44. I'm not the OP. I prefer repro 1851 Navy type .36 revolvers. I have 6 of them, and 1 repro 1848 Pocket .31 5-shot 6" w/load lever.

Jim

Offline jaxenro

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Re: Anyone have a Pietta 1851 (Sheriff ?) renamed Marine 44
« Reply #54 on: September 21, 2017, 04:55:21 PM »
Imagine a dragoon 54 with a 9" barrel and a long Army type grip. Think it would sell?

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Offline Hewy

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Re: Anyone have a Pietta 1851 (Sheriff ?) renamed Marine 44
« Reply #55 on: September 21, 2017, 05:50:39 PM »
Might be Piettas reason or at least fantasy justification ah...........beside the marketing angle of course.


http://blackpowdersmoke.com/colt/index.php/topic,2298.msg22767.html#msg22767
Hawg posted this awhile back. When you open the link scroll past the 1862 Navy to the Pocket Police.

This could be what Pietta created the Sheriff model on. They , Pietta ,don't have a rebated 36 that I'm aware of
so built the gun around the .44 cylinder produced for their 1860 Army.

Could be
Hewy
BETTER TO GETTIN than GETTIN GOT.

Offline sourdough

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Re: Anyone have a Pietta 1851 (Sheriff ?) renamed Marine 44
« Reply #56 on: September 21, 2017, 05:51:20 PM »
Imagine a dragoon 54 with a 9" barrel and a long Army type grip. Think it would sell?

Probably. I don't think I would want fire it and hang on to it!

You will probably have to go a far piece to get Pietta to even think about it. At my email urging (to Alphonse at Pietta Marketing), Pietta is even hedging about producing a Dance .36 or a Rigdon and Ansley .36. It would be a piece of cake for them to do so: all the Dance .36 would require is the barrel and smooth cylinder from the G&G on the 1851 Navy steel frame with the recoil shields milled off; the R&A .36 would only require milling 6 more stop-slots in the plain no-pins cylinder and the barrel from the G&G on the 1851 Navy steel frame.

They produce over 95% of those parts now for their production pistols.

Pietta could even market a Leech & Rigdon using parts they already have made for other pistols with no modifications: 1851 Navy .36 with the smooth cylinder and the G&G barrel. I have one I made up from the same thing using 2 pistols. If I can do it just by swapping parts, so can they.

But they don't.

Yet they tooled up for the foolish 1851 Navy .36 Pepperbox. Go figure.

Good luck with your wish list, sir.

Regards,

Jim
« Last Edit: September 21, 2017, 06:07:38 PM by sourdough »

Offline sourdough

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Re: Anyone have a Pietta 1851 (Sheriff ?) renamed Marine 44
« Reply #57 on: September 21, 2017, 06:04:08 PM »
Might be Piettas reason or at least fantasy justification ah...........beside the marketing angle of course.


http://blackpowdersmoke.com/colt/index.php/topic,2298.msg22767.html#msg22767
Hawg posted this awhile back. When you open the link scroll past the 1862 Navy to the Pocket Police.

This could be what Pietta created the Sheriff model on. They , Pietta ,don't have a rebated 36 that I'm aware of
so built the gun around the .44 cylinder produced for their 1860 Army.

Could be

Thanks for Hawg's link to Breslin. I saved that .pdf file and must have missed it earlier.

Jim