colt banner

Author Topic: 1851 endurance test  (Read 3074 times)

Offline mike116

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1861
    • View Profile
    • LeathersmithMike.net
Re: 1851 endurance test
« Reply #15 on: November 01, 2017, 06:34:10 PM »
Black MZ is only $10 per pound in my neck of the woods.  http://www.sportsmanswarehouse.com/sportsmans/Alliant-Black-MZ-Muzzleloader-Powder/productDetail/Powder-and-Primers/prod99999030268/cat100011#pr-header-back-to-top-link   Goex is $28 at Bass Pro Shops,  the only place in the state you can buy it.    I'm tempted to try some Black MZ at that price.

Offline ssb73q

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2558
  • Gunsmoke junkie
    • View Profile
Re: 1851 endurance test
« Reply #16 on: November 02, 2017, 10:24:19 AM »
Hi Mike, initially I was very down on Black Mz because of the large velocity standard deviation, but then discovered all the other benefits of using it. It's is now my favored BP substitute. I ordered a lifetime supply from sportsman's warehouse at ~$10/lb. With Black Mz you can run and run and run in a way not possible with other BP propellants.

Regards,
Richard
There’s nothing better in the morning than the smell of bacon and black powder smoke!

Offline LonesomePigeon

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 475
  • Newbie
    • View Profile
Re: 1851 endurance test
« Reply #17 on: November 02, 2017, 06:00:40 PM »
 Black MZ at $10/lb. is sounding very attractive. Is there a Hazmat fee with shipping Black MZ?

Offline 99whip

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 406
  • Newbie
    • View Profile
Re: 1851 endurance test
« Reply #18 on: November 03, 2017, 07:14:03 AM »
Curious about a Hazmat fee on that also LP, I didn't see a mention of it on the sportsman's warehouse link but maybe I just missed it.

Offline ssb73q

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2558
  • Gunsmoke junkie
    • View Profile
Re: 1851 endurance test
« Reply #19 on: November 03, 2017, 07:42:09 AM »
Hi, most all shipments of BP, subs, smokeless, primers, and caps require a hazmat fee. That includes Black Mz The hasmat fee encourages buying larger supplies of shooting propellants and caps.

Olde Eynsford costs $19.99, Black Mz $26.99 from Graf and Sons:
https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/category/categoryId/3500

Assuming a 20gr charge for the 1851, the added cost per shot using Black Mz over Olde Eynsford is $0.02. IMO considering the advantages, even at a $27 price for Black Mz, Black Mz won't break anyone's bank.

BTW, caps cost ~$0.04, and if you buy your balls, swaged 0.380" ~$0.13, Black Mz ($26.99) ~$0.08 per shot. total ~$0.25.

Regards,
Richard
There’s nothing better in the morning than the smell of bacon and black powder smoke!

Offline bigted

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 280
  • when all is said ... more will be said then done.
    • View Profile
Re: 1851 endurance test
« Reply #20 on: November 19, 2017, 08:54:53 AM »
Well got to go play some more ... altho only 12 paper carts were used this time.

Carts are the same cig paper only this time i loaded Lee conical AND dipped the paper covered bullet in my vasoline/bee wax lube for a good bit of lube for the test [never done this before] and shot two groups off the bench rested very nicely ... got groups of 4+ inch at 15 yds. Little disapointed with this test and upon swabbing the barrel discovered copious fouling as well as some leading at the muzzle.

After cleaning her up i began loading lose powder and wads under home cast lead balls. No love here either using plain ol GOEX 3Fg powder. Tons of fouling and leading again ... same accuracy as the dipped Lee conicals.

Next i loaded lose powder and plain ball under plain crisco over the ball. Loading around 20 grains goex 3Fg powder and igniting it with cci # 10 caps i carefully shot the first group.

Coulda knocked over with a feather ... all 5 went to point  of aim AND all 5 into the same hole ... YES ... same raged hole.

Excited now i began shooting this old kinda messy load and kept shooting the same target .. 25 rounds later i had 23 shots in a hole no bigger then a 50 cent piece. Two shots outta 25 flew on account of my pulling them..

All in all i now know that this old method is going to be the most dependable accuracy wise and never gave a hint of binding.

I am very impressed with the plain paper carts loaded with ol E and just loading and shooting. I still need to try em with lube over ball loads. I really want to roll some carts and adjust my lube mix and dip em in lube. This would be the best in terms of speed and simplicity of loading as well as less messy. So ...

The further i go the more questions i develop. Such as 1- what were the ingredients of the cartridges available to folks in and out of the military originally. 2- what is a reasonable expectation of these early loaded carts. 3- wonder what the accuracy expectation was back in the day of percusion revolvers hay day.

On n on n on ... what fun. I really like shooting these ol buggers. Trying not to get too complicated in my endeaver and ruin my very fine pastime of shooting. Will continue this 51 experiment and report my findings here. Thanks for this most exelent forum. Hoping that more shooting reports come instead of all the fine picture posts of exelent revolvers.

Thats all for now fellers. More to come unless i get instructed to desist.

Ted
BIGTED

Offline sourdough

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 365
  • Newbie
    • View Profile
Re: 1851 endurance test
« Reply #21 on: November 19, 2017, 04:19:49 PM »
Don't desist, please. I/we learn more all of the time. Knowledge is never a bad thing.

Thanks!

Jim

Offline bigted

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 280
  • when all is said ... more will be said then done.
    • View Profile
Re: 1851 endurance test
« Reply #22 on: November 25, 2017, 03:52:56 PM »
Got to take the 51 for another romp yesterday.

Took my home made lube and added some olive oil to make it a bit softer. Lube began as 50/50 vasoline and bee wax. Adding 1/3rd olive oil it is begining to be soft enough to smear on the loaded chambers. It now stays in place when shooting the othrr chambers and is very greasy when warmed during the shot.

I do not know how many shots it would take to stop the revolver with the round ball cartridges topped off with this grease. I had a couple of the Lee conicals rooled into paper carts and these both loaded easy as wrll as shot well. Only downfall is the leftover paper left behind with the using of these cheap cig papers. I have had good luck with the zig zag ultra thin papers so will have to get some more of these.

Clean up is very easy as well with no messy grease to wipe down during the shoot.i even wonder if i need the green grease on the arbor as on cleanup this time i still had a ton of this syn grease to try to wash off during clean up. It really sticks to stuff.

I still need to get a method to build these cartridges so i have bare lead balls/conicals to dip in lube for a vintage military style cart. Then if i can achieve this ... all ill have to do is load the pregreased carts ... cap ... and shoo ... t to have enough lube on the dipped expesed lead to ensure a lubed round with enough lube to keep everthing running and keep the bore fouling nice n soft so as to prolong accuracy as well as keeping the revolver running as long as i care to keep shooting.

I will keep experimenting with it till i get it where i want them to be. Has to be a correct recipe that dosnt take long to roll up ... otherwise just as well fall back to what i have already discovered.

More later
BIGTED

Offline bigted

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 280
  • when all is said ... more will be said then done.
    • View Profile
Re: 1851 endurance test
« Reply #23 on: December 18, 2017, 03:27:59 PM »
Got out last sat with some new rolled carts. These new ones are thus,

I rolled the 36 cal carts as usual only with the zig zag ultra thin papers loading the 15.5 grains in them AND i now have a mold that casts the Johnson and dow pointed bullet which i glued the heel and snugged down on the powder. Twisting the tail over the pointed tip which pushed the bullet hard onto the powder. After allowing the elmers glue dry, i took a razor blade and ran it around the lube groove and popped the top twisted paper off exposing the lube grove and tip of the bullet. After all these were completed i nuked some lube and dipped the bullet in it up to the heeled section for a nice lubed bullet on a good lookin cartridge.

Loading these in the 51 i capped and began shooting.  Coulda knocked me over with a feather ... these hummers shoot like a house afire. They shoot to point of aim and the relads load easy with plenty of lube to keep her runnin just fine. Had my new Uberti 61 along and loaded them without a hitch ... the 61 also shoots em to point of aim

. Very fun all in all. Think im gonna play with the lube mixture as mine is a bit too much of the slippery stuff. Gonna try the old military mix of 8 parts bee wax and 1 part lard.

 Think i have run this to a happy conclusion. Gonna mess with the lube and play with different papers for less residue but all in all i am very pleased. Im gonna have a hard time shooting lose powder and balls from now on. YIPPEE.
BIGTED

Offline mike116

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1861
    • View Profile
    • LeathersmithMike.net
Re: 1851 endurance test
« Reply #24 on: December 18, 2017, 03:52:10 PM »
I use the Johnston & Dow bullets too Ted.  I really like them in paper cartridges.   Instead of dipping the bullets I add a lube cookie on top the powder before dropping the bullet in.   

Offline Fingers McGee

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 791
  • Show Me Shootout 2014 - TTN Hammer gun & BP
    • View Profile
    • Central Ozarks Western Shooters
Re: 1851 endurance test
« Reply #25 on: December 18, 2017, 04:20:19 PM »
How bought some pics of the completed bullets?
Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee - AKA Man of Many Colts; SASS 28564-L-TG, rangemaster and stage writer extraordinaire; Frontiersman/Pistoleer, NRA Endowment Life, Central Ozarks Western Shooters
Cynic: A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they should be.  Ambrose Bierce

Offline bigted

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 280
  • when all is said ... more will be said then done.
    • View Profile
Re: 1851 endurance test
« Reply #26 on: December 18, 2017, 06:38:08 PM »
I have had just a terrible time getting pictures posted here. The bucket is broken and cant seem to fix it. Will try again tho.
BIGTED

Offline Fingers McGee

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 791
  • Show Me Shootout 2014 - TTN Hammer gun & BP
    • View Profile
    • Central Ozarks Western Shooters
Re: 1851 endurance test
« Reply #27 on: December 18, 2017, 08:25:22 PM »
You don't need Pbucket.  You can attach pictures from your computer directly to this forum using the Attachments and other options link in the reply screen then attaching the file.
Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee - AKA Man of Many Colts; SASS 28564-L-TG, rangemaster and stage writer extraordinaire; Frontiersman/Pistoleer, NRA Endowment Life, Central Ozarks Western Shooters
Cynic: A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they should be.  Ambrose Bierce

Offline bigted

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 280
  • when all is said ... more will be said then done.
    • View Profile
Re: 1851 endurance test
« Reply #28 on: December 19, 2017, 05:51:44 PM »
BIGTED

Offline bigted

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 280
  • when all is said ... more will be said then done.
    • View Profile
Re: 1851 endurance test
« Reply #29 on: December 19, 2017, 05:57:11 PM »
BIGTED