Author Topic: Crazy group project idea  (Read 4032 times)

Offline Captainkirk

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Crazy group project idea
« on: January 17, 2014, 08:39:43 PM »
OK, I get crazy ideas sometimes. This is one o' them times.
Q: What is the most common (and most shunned) BP revolver out there?
A: The Pietta .44 brasser 'Navy'
Most people hate 'em. Most people wouldn't take one if you gave it to them. There are tons of them out there....on the auction sites....for a hundred bucks or less.
Now, everyone knows you can't (or shouldn't) load conversion cartridges in a brasser. You'll blow it apart. And nobody would be stupid enough to put a Taylor's, Kirst or Howell cylinder on one anyway. The cylinder is worth double the gun. Right? With me so far?
Good. OK, now...follow along. Suppose, just suppose, we take one of those cheap POS guns and MAKE a conversion cylinder....bore through the original percussion cylinder, install a stationary plate with a spring-loaded firing pin (like out of a Howell) under the hammer, and then work up a load using....get this..... a .45ACP case using half-moon clips (available on Amazon for around 5 bucks a pair) and load 25gr Holy Black behind a cast 200-240gr slug? This should not exceed the pressure limits of the brass frame, cost very little to make (barring the cost of the donor gun) and be really fun. .45ACP brass is readily available and cheap compared to .45LC. The short case should (roughly) hold 25gr of Holy Black or Pyro P with little or no filler. One could conceivably cut the recoil shield to facilitate loading using the clips. The cartridge we could name the 'Colt Country .45 Short'
OK.....maybe I'm a little nuts. But, anyone else out there a little nuts, too? Or maybe you can tell me why this WOULDN'T work? I'm listening! (Photo courtesy of GunAuctions.com)
« Last Edit: January 17, 2014, 08:41:39 PM by Captainkirk »
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Online jaxenro

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Re: Crazy group project idea
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2014, 09:53:32 PM »
Should Work
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Offline Kaboom

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Re: Crazy group project idea
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2014, 10:41:05 PM »
I love the ideas on here, but you guys sure are keepin' me in Dutch with the little lady. I'm so far in debt to the household funds now I won't get enny money fer two, tree years. But boy am ah havin fun. Just keep it up.   )k*  L@.
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Offline StrawHat

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Re: Crazy group project idea
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2014, 03:30:34 AM »
First, I am not sure there is enough room in the 1806 cylinder for waht you propose. 

Second.  You do NOT need to use the moon clips.  If you do, you do not need to cut the shield.  A proper cylinder cut for the ACP cartridge will headspace on the mouth of the cartridge, just as it does in the Colts and the clones that are set up for the ACP round.

To prevent a real ACP round from chambering, I would suggest either cutting the chamber short (and also trimming brass), or using the 45 Cowboy Special brass and a stright bored chamber, similar to what a heeled bullet would use.  Heck, if you really want to have fun, use a 44 casing of some sort and a bored through cylinder, and a heeled bullet.  Wait a second, Colt's did that already, the 44 COlt cartridge and the Richards conversion.

Doesn't one of the conversion guys sell a cylinder cut for the ACP?  That would save a lot of time and effort and get you shooting faster.

Any way you go on this, have fun but I'll pass on a brass framed conversion.
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Offline Pustic

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Re: Crazy group project idea
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2014, 11:59:28 AM »
That's a lot of work for something that might or might not work. Do it the easy, and sure way. Use a Taylor's, Kirst or Howell conversion cylinder, they can handle the cartridge, it's the gun that can not. Use either .45 Schofield or .45 Colt brass and work up a light load using bp or a bp substitute, a compression wad, and top it off with either a cast lead projectile or a roundball. No drilling needed, no worry about headspace, and no sweat GI.  :D
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Offline mazo kid

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Re: Crazy group project idea
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2014, 06:41:58 PM »
You're gonna have to cut the cylinder anyway....since you are putting a recoil shield on the gun. I cut a cylinder for my 22 conversion, see my '51 Colt 22 conversion post (Another project gun) I would have to do some measuring, but you COULD make the recoil shield thick enough, that with the half moon clips it wouldn't chamber a standard 45 ACP shell, put the firing pin in the recoil shield. Interesting project, but I have neither a 44 brasser or extra cylinder. Might have to look for a junker!
« Last Edit: January 18, 2014, 06:53:07 PM by mazo kid »

Online Hawg

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Re: Crazy group project idea
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2014, 06:54:37 PM »
Just use .45 Colt cowboys. A rimmed .45 ACP. Why not use a steel frame 1860 so you'd have something worth having? And if you use a steel frame you can just use .45 Colt's.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2014, 06:57:07 PM by Hawg »

Offline Captainkirk

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Re: Crazy group project idea
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2014, 09:25:18 PM »
Just use .45 Colt cowboys. A rimmed .45 ACP. Why not use a steel frame 1860 so you'd have something worth having? And if you use a steel frame you can just use .45 Colt's.
Dunno....probably because I've been hearing people tell me you can't shoot cartridges out of a brasser so long I just want to prove 'em wrong.
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Offline Captainkirk

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Re: Crazy group project idea
« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2014, 09:27:55 PM »
Interesting project, but I have neither a 44 brasser or extra cylinder. Might have to look for a junker!

Pretty much what I was thinking. Lot of junkers out there for way less than 100 bucks
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Offline brazosdave

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Re: Crazy group project idea
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2014, 03:57:57 PM »
I like it!  (I'm one of those exceptions to the rule:  I have a brasser .44 sheriff that is one of my most reliable, best shooting pistols.  I don't take it out as often as I used to (have more guns than time to shoot em  *6'), but if I want to take an ole reliable, or introduce a newcomer to the fun of b.p., this is always a good choice.)
I am intrigued by your proposal, but I fear i have neither the time nor the tools or skill to accomplish a redneck conversion.  I would love to see one of the handier folks here have a go at it! :)
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Offline StrawHat

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Re: Crazy group project idea
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2014, 04:31:09 AM »
Dunno....probably because I've been hearing people tell me you can't shoot cartridges out of a brasser so long I just want to prove 'em wrong.

Conversely, you might just prove them right.
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Offline scooby

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Re: Crazy group project idea
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2014, 12:45:09 PM »
A .36 brasser,,, fully within reason in my opinion. Using .38 Short or Long Colt brass with a heeled bullet, you would have a milder load that would not hammer the recoil ring.

I think Strawhat is right regarding having enough meat left on the 1860 cylinder to work if you went the .45 route. I can't remember the specifices, but had a conversation with a guru on that very subject a few years back.

So just as Stawhat has said, .44 Colt would be the route to go with a heeled bullet.

I edited this post to fix a spelling error. I had typed conversion instead of conversation. The conversation with the guru centered around the same concept that StrawHat has already mentioned pertaining to the fact that there just is not enough meat in the cylinder, and this applies to the ratchet at the rear of the cylinder as well.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2014, 10:21:21 AM by scooby »

Offline Captainkirk

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Re: Crazy group project idea
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2014, 08:44:38 PM »
Why would a .45 ACP case filled with less than 25 gr black powder hammer a recoil ring harder than 25 gr loose bp which is an acceptable max load for a .44 brasser?
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Offline scooby

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Re: Crazy group project idea
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2014, 09:33:15 PM »
It is due to increased pressure from a bullet being crimped in a brass casing and shooting a heavier conical bullet rather than a lighter roundball. There can also be the issue of compaction of the powder by the bullet if one preferes to shoot compressed loads. It is sort of like the fire cracker concept. Not very much powder, but tightly packed and wrapped so as to increase resistance of expanding gas, therefore increasing overall pressure.

I am currently shooting a reduced load of only 20 grains of 3F in .45 Schofield with a 225 grain bullet out of my Pietta 1860 Kirst conversion, and it has noticeable recoil over my percussion 1860's when loaded with 25 and 30 grains of 3F and a 140ish grain roundball.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2014, 12:32:33 AM by scooby »

Offline Captainkirk

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Re: Crazy group project idea
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2014, 08:13:13 PM »
Never considered that. Let me do some more figgerin' here....... L@J
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