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Author Topic: Uberti 1860?  (Read 3686 times)

Online ssb73q

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Re: Uberti 1860?
« Reply #105 on: May 14, 2017, 06:04:33 AM »
Edit: I just took a look at Goon's website, and fire blues screws, not nitre blue.

Yes, Mike fire blues the screws. And they look fantastic!!!!

Hi, nitre or flame bluing the screws makes sense, but I have mixed feelings about hardening screws. What would you rather wear, the soft revolver steel tapped hole, or the screw? Of course hardening a revolver screw will minimize screwdriver head buggering, but with correct screwdrivers is that really a problem? Complete replacement screw sets can be purchased for ~$25 if ever needed.

Another argument is that hardened screws have lower action parts friction than soft screws. I disagree, the greatest friction is between metals with similar hardness. The hammers and other internal parts are already hardened. What would you rather have wear, a low cost screw or expensive action part that was properly hand fitted?

If I nitre blue a screw set, I will not harden the screws (quench them), just blue them.

Regards,
Richard
There’s nothing better in the morning than the smell of bacon and black powder smoke!

Offline 45 Dragoon

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Re: Uberti 1860?
« Reply #106 on: May 14, 2017, 07:19:27 AM »
Apparently Colt and all other gun manufacturers (even today) aren't as smart as you Richard.  I'm pretty sure the "kits" from Italy are the softest revolvers made today.  Maybe you should do the gun manufacturers a favor and alert them to their  ignorance in this matter. Though it would save me considerable time per revolver, I will continue the lunacy of hardening the soft screws and coloring them.  Even scarier, (!) I actually harden the hands of the revolvers that get the hand spring upgrade (and the competition guns as well!)!!

Ok, enough time spent here, I've got to work on some guns (yes, even on Mothers Day!! )!!

Happy Mother's Day to all the moms out there!!

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
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Online ssb73q

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Re: Uberti 1860?
« Reply #107 on: May 14, 2017, 11:56:23 AM »
Hi Mike, I have a considerable background in material science, including friction and wear. I never said that I was as smart as current manufacturers of firearms, but material science has improved considerably since the 1850s. I was opening the subject for discussion, not personal attacks.  :)

Regards,
Richard
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Offline 45 Dragoon

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Re: Uberti 1860?
« Reply #108 on: May 14, 2017, 04:57:38 PM »
Well Richard,
 When you start a discussion with a quote regarding my services, it appears personal and I'll always defend my service.

 I agree that many things are better than practiced in the 1850s, but I doubt any maker of firearms today uses non heat-treated cylinders/  barrels/ frames/screws /screwpins/ action parts etc.  In fact, I can't think of any steel parts that don't have some degree of heat treating on modern revolvers.
 I was taught to harden soft screws if I wanted the action of the guns I work on (Italian C&B copies) to be better/ last longer.  The man was a consultant for some of the well known importers of these arms. I figured he knows pretty much what he's talking about.  Many of the things I do are directly from his mouth and any variance of anything from me was ran by him for his approval or disapproval. My service includes many things that would be "extras" by anyone else (including Jim) but, he has a customer base, I'm growing one.

 Since this is a discussion about heat treating, I in fact do heat treat the screw pins for the lubricity and foundation it lends for the trigger and bolt to pivot on. The movement of these parts is very small so polishing the pin is merely cosmetic (descaling after treating is sufficient). The hammer pivot has a much bigger arc and the polished screw surface does lend a better surface for hammer travel and a better "feel" in the action. It doesn't necessarily have to be a mirror finish though.

 For those that want to harden the hand, remove the flat spring from the fitted hand (or better, make it slightly long (stretch it some)), harden it, descale it, reinstall the spring, fit the hand if you stretched it. An action stop will prolong the life of the hand and the cyl. ratchet just as they are,  hardening it will ensure that it will.

I will add, Jim never cautioned against hard parts in lieu of wear. If one should wear out any action part because of a hard screw, he would call it a defective part!! Lol!! He brags about a pair of his shooters (Colts) he tuned in the late 50's and both are still running today with the original parts.( if they are Colts, all the action parts and screws/ screwpins are hardened). That works for me. Sometimes, folks will spend a lifetime trying to "reinvent" a perfectly good wheel .  .  .  .  . 

Hope this adds something to the discussion for some.

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks

Online ssb73q

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Re: Uberti 1860?
« Reply #109 on: May 14, 2017, 08:13:41 PM »
Hi Mike, I read somewhere that the screws and the barrel/frame steel of the original 1850s revolvers were harder than current BP replicas. When the only disassembly tool was probably a butter knife, hardened screw heads is useful. Harder doesn't mean stronger, just a higher yield strength. It's ductility (tensile strength) in addition to appropriate yield strength that provides the safety margins required. The screws on my Colt SAA seem to be hardened, but seems to lend itself to loosening after a lot of shooting. Colt even sells small plastic washers that go under those frame screws to keep them from backing out.

Have you ever noticed small dimensional changes on screws after heat treating? VTI sells BP hardened screw sets for quite a premium. I wonder what potential issues I face nitre bluing revolver screws?

Regards,
Richard
There’s nothing better in the morning than the smell of bacon and black powder smoke!

Online ssb73q

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Re: Uberti 1860?
« Reply #110 on: May 15, 2017, 12:27:08 PM »
Hi, the new Uberti 1860 charcoal blue revolver just came in the door. The revolver is beautiful and the fit and finish is great. The timing seems perfect. However, the bluing look darker than expected. This is a photo without flash:



This is a photo with flash:



The flash seems to pick up the iridescent blue better.

None of the screws are charcoal blue, just the highly polished deep Uberti blue.

I will tear down this revolver tomorrow and will install a reduced power spring, but not yet sure if I want to do the arbor fix since this revolver is for show and handling, not shooting.

Regards,
Richard

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Online ssb73q

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Re: Uberti 1860?
« Reply #111 on: May 16, 2017, 04:24:56 AM »
Hi, the new Uberti 1860 charcoal blue revolver was dissembled, internal parts polished, reduced power spring installed, and then reassembled. Anti-seize was put on the nipple threads. The frame screws took some real torquing to loosen, more force was required than any new revolver experienced before. If one doesn't have proper screwdrivers, buggered screw-heads will occur, guaranteed. The Uberti 1860 charcoal brass trigger guard is a matte finish. I like the brass on a new revolver bright and polished the trigger guard with Brasso.

The charcoal finish is very nice and interesting depending on how light hits the bluing finish. A new screw set has been ordered to nitre finish the screws. If the nitre works well, all the visible screws will be replaced.

Regards,
Richard
« Last Edit: May 16, 2017, 08:41:34 AM by ssb73q »
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Offline 99whip

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Re: Uberti 1860?
« Reply #112 on: May 16, 2017, 08:42:19 AM »
how about a photo of the gun out in the light of day?  Will probably show off that color a little better..

Online ssb73q

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Re: Uberti 1860?
« Reply #113 on: May 16, 2017, 10:44:30 AM »
Hi whip, it will be raining for the next couple of days. When we get some sun I will take a photo outside. While the charcoal 1860 won't be used for shooting, I will do the arbor length mod just to have it in a shootable condition. It's easy to return a JB Weld arbor button back to stock if ever needed. The hammer sight will be left stock.

The more I look at and handle the charcoal blued 1860, the more I appreciate its beauty. It sure makes a nice addition to my living room display revolvers.

Regards,
Richard
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Re: Uberti 1860?
« Reply #114 on: May 17, 2017, 03:52:58 AM »
Hi, the short arbor length of the new Uberti 1860 charcoal revolver has been fixed:



Barrel/cylinder gap now 0.003"

Regards,
Richard
There’s nothing better in the morning than the smell of bacon and black powder smoke!

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Re: Uberti 1860?
« Reply #115 on: May 17, 2017, 09:10:00 AM »
Hi, I took the new Uberti 1860 Army Charcoal blued revolver outside to take a couple of photos in the sun. The revolver was placed in a group of wild strawberry blossoms. The photos don't do justice to the brilliant bright bluing. The photos:





This revolver will now get a special place in my living room revolvers display.

Regards,
Richard
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Offline Captainkirk

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Re: Uberti 1860?
« Reply #116 on: May 17, 2017, 09:57:01 AM »
Looks fantastic...but for some reason I was thinking this gun was a 3 screw civilian model. Oh well, I can't be right ALL the time...I guess... L@J
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Offline 99whip

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Re: Uberti 1860?
« Reply #117 on: May 17, 2017, 12:16:26 PM »
Looks really nice Richard, seems like it deserves a few ceremonial shots at the very least...

Online ssb73q

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Re: Uberti 1860?
« Reply #118 on: May 17, 2017, 01:58:57 PM »
Looks fantastic...but for some reason I was thinking this gun was a 3 screw civilian model. Oh well, I can't be right ALL the time...I guess... L@J

Hi Kirk, this is the Civilian:

http://blackpowdersmoke.com/colt/index.php?topic=2209.msg23185#msg23185

Scooby has the Civilian with charcoal bluing.

Maybe I'm getting revolvers too fast for you to keep up?  &\? &\?

Regards,
Richard
« Last Edit: May 17, 2017, 03:10:42 PM by ssb73q »
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Offline Captainkirk

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Re: Uberti 1860?
« Reply #119 on: May 17, 2017, 05:05:44 PM »
Maybe I'm getting revolvers too fast for you to keep up?  &\? &\?
Entirely possible. &\?
"You gonna pull those pistols, or whistle Dixie?"