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Author Topic: Cap Sucking Colts  (Read 11323 times)

Offline Hawg

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Re: Cap Sucking Colts
« Reply #120 on: November 23, 2016, 12:15:36 PM »
That's what I like about living in the boonies. I don't even know where a range is, never been to one other than a CAS range that was set up like a town. Anytime I want to shoot I just go outside and have just opened the door and let loose.

Offline Captainkirk

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Re: Cap Sucking Colts
« Reply #121 on: November 23, 2016, 12:20:23 PM »
*sigh* Sweet....
"You gonna pull those pistols, or whistle Dixie?"

Offline Hawg

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Re: Cap Sucking Colts
« Reply #122 on: November 23, 2016, 01:41:15 PM »
*sigh* Sweet....

I could rub it in but I won't  (7+" (7& (7& (7&

Online ssb73q

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Re: Cap Sucking Colts
« Reply #123 on: November 24, 2016, 04:58:34 AM »
Hi, I would like to see a study on how the cap rake compares in performance to the filled in hammer slot. Just considering the process, I would bet that the filled in hammer is a better solution to cap sucking. The cap rake still allows the cap to be pulled back a slight distance off the cone where it can then fall into the action. The cap then needs a partial trip around the recoil shield to clear since the post blocks cap removal from the frame hammer opening. The filled in hammer leaves most of the spent cap still on the cone and preserves the frame hammer opening.

Just a little cap sucking conjecture.

Regards,
Richard
There’s nothing better in the morning than the smell of bacon and black powder smoke!

Offline 45 Dragoon

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Re: Cap Sucking Colts
« Reply #124 on: November 24, 2016, 07:01:39 AM »
Out of 200+ revolvers I've never been asked to "fill in" a hammer notch.  Likewise, all the CASS shooters that I service want to "make sure" the cap post is part of the service!  I've had two folks ask to not install a post, one I can't remember why but the other one was on a 2nd gen Colt that wouldn't be shot (so, no need) but he just wanted it to be set up to function the best that it could.

 I just got off the phone with Kaido (yes, the bullet guy) and asked him how he likes the posts I put on his  and he said he absolutely loves um!! He said he takes the pair on bear hunts and likes having six shots instead of just five.
For what it's worth, I'll be installing my  frame mounted "pushrod and coil spring" (a la Ruger and Caps. Dragoon) to his and the others I have here of his.

So, as "unscientific" as it may or may not be , it appears almost all shooters desire the cap post over any other method.

Btw, The cap post is a reversible procedure as is the arbor threaded for the adjustable wedge bearing (just plug them). And of course, you could just grind the arbor to be short again and end up with the gun you started with!  (A wreck !!) Don't know why anyone would want to .  .  .  .    Heck, you could put all new factory parts in it and have it possibly (probably) eat itself!

Mike
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Online ssb73q

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Re: Cap Sucking Colts
« Reply #125 on: November 24, 2016, 08:03:39 AM »
Hi Mike, does the hammer slot need to be modified in any way to use a cap rake?

Regards,
Richard
There’s nothing better in the morning than the smell of bacon and black powder smoke!

Offline 45 Dragoon

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Re: Cap Sucking Colts
« Reply #126 on: November 24, 2016, 08:55:15 AM »
No, I fit the post to the existing notch. Of course material directly behind the notch needs to be clearanced to allow the hammer to reach its full forward movement.  Its basically extending the rearward depth of the existing notch.
  They are rarely centered so i mark each one, drill and tap the frame and slim the sides of the post after its mounted. That leaves the full thickness of the post front to back for maximum strength.

Mike
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« Last Edit: November 24, 2016, 08:56:52 AM by 45 Dragoon »

Online ssb73q

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Re: Cap Sucking Colts
« Reply #127 on: November 24, 2016, 09:16:47 AM »
Hi Mike, thanks for the information, and a very happy Thanksgiving to you and your family.

Regards,
Richard
There’s nothing better in the morning than the smell of bacon and black powder smoke!

Offline 45 Dragoon

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Re: Cap Sucking Colts
« Reply #128 on: November 24, 2016, 12:55:13 PM »
Thanks Richard,  you too! (We're just now in between "feedings"!!)

Mike
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Online ssb73q

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Re: Cap Sucking Colts
« Reply #129 on: April 13, 2017, 05:33:08 AM »
Hi, another opinion on capsucking:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUgZ5LYnscM

Regards,
Richard
There’s nothing better in the morning than the smell of bacon and black powder smoke!

Offline 45 Dragoon

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Re: Cap Sucking Colts
« Reply #130 on: April 13, 2017, 07:13:43 AM »
20-30,000 psi? (That's getting into Ruger only territory)
The cap is supposed to be a gas seal?
Recommends filing a notch on the bottom of the cone? (Guess the "gas seal" isn't all that important!)
A notch in the hammer face removes less material for striking a cap and doesn't have to be as precise as a round hole.to locate on a pin. (The original notches were not as wide as our Italian copies)
The main springs were heavy to trap cap frags/ protect shooter/ ensure ignition (my opinion)

The installation of a cap post ALLOWS the reduction of mainspring power because it arrests any blowback rather than the hammer having the sole responsibility. Racking a hammer back with good authority will "throw"  (as it's dislodged) any caps/frags away from possibly falling into the action.
A common misconception is that a weaker mainspring is the reason for unreliable ignition. It has just as much (if not more) to do with the action parts than  the  strength of the spring.  Sure, a sledge hammer will pop a cap every time but it's not conducive for competition, ease of handling, long life of parts, fanning , etc.  The simple installation of a cap post ALLOWS a hard to handle, heavy actioned cap gun to be as reliable and easy shooting as a fine tuned cartridge shooter.  A "Race gun' if you will.

Yap, the video depicts that guys idea of why, what and how  .  .  .  .  I like mine better!  (At least I know to use half cock when removing/installing a cylinder!)

Mike
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Online ssb73q

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Re: Cap Sucking Colts
« Reply #131 on: April 13, 2017, 07:59:28 AM »
Hi Mike, I agree the guy isn't too strong on science. He also suggested that the old time caps were thinner than today's? His removal of the cylinder with the hammer down had me cringe. I know he knows better.

It was just another very experienced BP person's opinion to consider.

It's clear to me that there isn't any perfect solution to capsucking, other than use conversion cylinders, but there are some methods to minimize the issue of capsucking.

All opinions are welcome.

Regards,
Richard 
There’s nothing better in the morning than the smell of bacon and black powder smoke!

Offline jaxenro

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Re: Cap Sucking Colts
« Reply #132 on: April 13, 2017, 11:55:24 AM »
All I know is the cap post Mike put on my 1865 works perfectly and I think it was one of the early ones he did as I sent him some pics of what I wanted. I am willing to bet he has gotten better at it
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Offline Hawg

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Re: Cap Sucking Colts
« Reply #133 on: April 13, 2017, 04:22:59 PM »
Hi Mike, I agree the guy isn't too strong on science. He also suggested that the old time caps were thinner than today's? 

Original caps were thicker and made from copper.

Offline wicket

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Re: Cap Sucking Colts
« Reply #134 on: April 13, 2017, 04:43:17 PM »
Hawg's right...

"The copper for making the caps is obtained in sheets 4 feet long and 14 inches wide weighing three pounds: a variation of four ounces more or less is allowed. The copper should be pure, free from seams, holes or blisters, well annealed, and as evenly rolled as possible with straight and smooth edges."
From: A Practical Treatise On The Fabrication Of Matches, Gun Cotton, Colored Fires And Fulminating Powders by H. Dussance. Philadelphia, 1864
 
If you do the math, it works out to a cap around 8 mils or so thick, and using pure annealed copper, the cap doesn't work harden when formed as much as a modern cap.