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Messages - Fingers McGee

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1
General Discussion / Re: The Old story 'Black powder vs Synthetic'
« on: May 24, 2017, 09:28:42 AM »
IMNSHO;

BP = Yes
Pyrodex = NO




2
General Discussion / Re: Attacking the "chainfire myth"
« on: May 17, 2017, 09:02:17 AM »
There's no way I'll ever believe they come from the nipple end.

Only chain fire I've ever had came from an uncapped nipple. 

3
Navy Models / Re: Uberti Stainless Steel Colts.
« on: May 09, 2017, 04:48:49 PM »
Looks like they have cap grooves in the recoil shield unlike the Colt 2nd Gen 1851s.

That they do. 

4
Navy Models / Re: Uberti Stainless Steel Colts.
« on: May 09, 2017, 01:02:01 PM »
I'm guessing those are the Gunbroker photos. Fingers, will you post some more when they arrive?

That is correct.  I will be taking/posting new photos when they arrive.  Although, the seller took at least 13 pictures of each that were in the listings.

5
Navy Models / Re: Uberti Stainless Steel Colts.
« on: May 09, 2017, 10:00:44 AM »
Hi Fingers, I know that stainless steel BP replica revolvers hold a special interest for you. Can you give us some information on how many of these stainless steel revolvers were made by Uberti and Pietta? Is it just the rarity of the stainless steel BP revolvers that holds your interest? Do you shoot them? Does stainless steel when used with BP have less corrosion than blued revolvers?

I remember that when Colt began making stainless steel handguns that many workers would call in sick when there was going to be a production run of stainless steel handguns. Seems that the stainless steel used was gummy to machine and was hell on tooling. I really like and own a number of modern stainless steel handguns, but shy about buying stainless steel for BP revolvers. They cost more and IMO lack the historical perspective appearance of BP revolvers of the time.

Regards,
Richard
Interesting, does that mean Uberti made 8,000 of these SS 1851 Navy's? That seems like way too many for how rarely they show up.

Another interesting thing about these SS Uberti '51's is they seem to have the exact same contours on the barrel lug and the exact same trigger guard shape as the 2nd Gen Colt's.  These are just my impressions but on the normal Uberti Squareback 1851 Navy it seems the barrel lug is more forward-slanted and the trigger guard is a little deeper top to bottom.

The best I can figure, it is possible that over the five years of production that I have identified so far from date codes, there could have been 8,000 total.  There were 16 different models of the SS Colts being made, not just 1851 Navies.  Spread over 5 years and 16 models, the 8000 total would mean about 100 of each were made each year.  Uberti was the only maker, Pietta had nothing to do with them.   The 1982 Colt's catalog had five SS models listed, only 3 of the models actually got made.  Since Uberti was the primary parts kit maker for the 2nd Gens, it would be likely that Uberti was cutting their losses by bringing out the SS models in 1983.

Here is the thread I've been updating for the last few years about the SS models and how many have been found so far.

In the early to mid 1980s, Uberti produced a line of stainless steel percussion Colt revolvers that were imported to the US by Allen Firearms, Santa Fe, NM; Southwest Muzzleloaders Supply, Inc. Angleton, TX, Uberti USA, and possibly others.  They are now also known to have been sold in Europe under the HEGE dealer name. 

Phil Spangenberger did an article about these stainless revolvers in the October 1983 issue of Guns and Ammo Magazine. According to the article, the models that were being imported were the 1851 Navy, 1860 Army, 1861 Navy, 1862 Pocket Navy, and 1862 Pocket police. Thanks to Dr. J.L. Davis of RPRCA, Claremore, OK, I have a 1984 price list for Uberti products that lists fourteen different models of Stainless Steel Colts produced by Uberti at that time. Subsequent price lists expanded the line to 16 models by adding 4 ½ inch barreled Pocket Navy and Pocket Police. The complete model list, known so far, is:

1851 Navy, Oval Trigger guard Revolver, Cal. .36
1851 Navy, Square back Trigger guard Revolver, Cal. .36 *@
1851 Navy, “Sheriff’s Model” Oval Trigger guard Revolver, Cal. .36 *
1851 Navy, “Sheriff’s Model” Square back Trigger guard Revolver, Cal. .36
1860 Army, Military, Cut For Stock, Cal. .44 *@
1860 Army, Military, With Fluted Cylinder, Revolver, Cal. .44*@
1861 Navy, Military, Cut For Stock, Revolver, Cal. .36 * @
1861 Navy, Civilian, Revolver, Cal. .36
1861 Navy, Military, With Fluted Cylinder, Revolver, Cal. .36*
1861 Navy, Civilian, With Fluted Cylinder, Revolver, Cal. .36
1862 Police, Semi-Fluted Cylinder, Revolver, Cal. .36, Barrel 4 ½”@
1862 Police, Semi-Fluted Cylinder, Revolver, Cal. .36, Barrel 5 ½”*@
1862 Police, Semi-Fluted Cylinder, Revolver, Cal. .36, Barrel 6 ½”
1862 Pocket Navy, Engraved Cylinder, Revolver, Cal. .36, Barrel 4 ½”*
1862 Pocket Navy, Engraved Cylinder, Revolver, Cal. .36, Barrel 5 ½”*@
1862 Pocket Navy, Engraved Cylinder, Revolver, Cal. .36, Barrel 6 ½”
(* - have identified location of examples of these models)
(@ - have this model)

The current total of known revolvers is 31. I have nine of these revolvers and know of twenty two in the hands of other collectors or BP shooters. The latest two that have been identified were listings for two 1851 Navies on Gun Broker.  Two of the known revolvers are in Switzerland, and one is in England.  The Swiss models are marked Hege and the English model has the typical Allen Firearms barrel address.

Anyone with information concerning Allen Firearms, Southwest Muzzleloaders Supply or any other Uberti Stainless Steel Colt style revolvers is requested to contact fingersmcgee@charter.net  I am seeking information as to models, manufacture dates, serial numbers, barrel markings, barrel lengths, trigger guards, and any other characteristics as well as any catalog, brochure and original packaging information.



6
Navy Models / Re: Uberti Stainless Steel Colts.
« on: May 08, 2017, 08:41:23 PM »
Great score! Do they have a letter/number combo serial number like normal Uberti's or is it all numbers like a Colt?

All the SS Uberti Colts that I have documented have six digit serial numbers that run from 116XXX to 124XXX and were made between 1983 and 1987. 

7
Navy Models / Uberti Stainless Steel Colts.
« on: May 08, 2017, 04:46:47 PM »
Just won these on Gunbroker today.  Listing was for "Uberti stainless engraved black powder revolver "
 Of course the only engraving was the roll engraved naval battle scene on the cylinder. They were imported by Allen Firearms of Santa Fe, NM and are two more in my search for these rare Uberti Stainless Colt's. Total known & documented is now up to 31.




8
Navy Models / Re: Colt Signature Series 1851 Navy
« on: April 30, 2017, 08:34:41 PM »
Congrats on the find .

9
Navy Models / Re: Navy Arms G.U. 1851 Colt Navy, from the first run?
« on: April 22, 2017, 12:12:18 PM »
Great find Val.  The G&Us are collectable, and there have been a bunch of them show up on GB in the past couple years.   I've got a pair of Navy Arms G&U Griswold & Gunnisons that are unfired, uncleaned, and in 100% new condition with original grease in areas.  They are SN 10XX and 17XX.  The 17XX one has a 1960 date code and proof marks on the frame.  The 10XX one has no markings except the serial number on the frame.

Would love to see the NY Times article if you can provide a link. 

10
Army Models / Re: Lyman 1860 Army - Stainless TG & BS
« on: April 20, 2017, 09:49:18 AM »
Hi, found this, 5th post down:

https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=251635

Regards,
Richard

Thanks for finding it.  I couldn't.  Thought I had it tagged; but ??????????

11
Army Models / Re: Lyman 1860 Army - Stainless TG & BS
« on: April 19, 2017, 04:50:16 PM »
The Lyman revolvers were made by Armi San Paolo.  There should be a DGG stamp on the underside of the barrel.  And I believe the back strap and trigger guards on he Lyman's are nickel plated - not silver.

12
Army Models / Re: Uberti 1860?
« on: April 14, 2017, 09:45:19 AM »
Hi Kirk, this will be my 37th BP revolver currently owned. Don't tell my wife.  *6'

 (jh  Only 37? 

13
General Discussion / Re: Need some help identifying a couple of BPs
« on: April 05, 2017, 08:32:32 PM »
 (jh  Completely overlooked that.  Being a full fluted '61 makes it more desireable - and valuable

14
General Discussion / Re: Need some help identifying a couple of BPs
« on: April 05, 2017, 04:48:33 PM »
The 1860 is a Uberti.  The Uberti makers mark is visible on the frame in the Army1 photo.  There is an XXV (1969) dated code on the right side of the frame in the Army2 picture

THe brass framed 1862 Pocket Police has a BH (1996) date code on it.  If it was sold by CVA, there would be a CVA logo in he frame and if it was a kit, there would not have been a date code or proof marks.  Chances are that they were both originally sold by Navy Arms - which took over Replica Arms.

You may have paid a little more than you should have for the 1860; but you got the Pocket Police at a good price.  All in all, you did OK.

Congratulations!  Be sure to submit a field report after you take them to the range

FM

15
Griswold & Gunnison / Re: G&G On Sale
« on: March 31, 2017, 04:24:04 PM »
That's a good price. 

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