Author Topic: Newly acquired Police model  (Read 9446 times)

Offline cidcw4

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Re: Newly acquired Police model
« Reply #30 on: June 17, 2015, 05:12:52 PM »
My stainless steel Allen Firearms pocket police.

Offline cidcw4

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Re: Newly acquired Police model
« Reply #31 on: June 17, 2015, 05:16:31 PM »
All of my stainless steel toys (Colt 1851 Navy, Colt 1860 Army, Uberti 1860 Army, Uberti 1851 Navy, Allen Firearms Pocket Police)

Offline mike116

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Re: Newly acquired Police model
« Reply #32 on: June 17, 2015, 05:59:53 PM »
Nice SS collection you have going there.  Thanks for getting the photos posted.   

Offline cidcw4

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Re: Newly acquired Police model
« Reply #33 on: June 17, 2015, 06:26:06 PM »
Thanks.  Finally cracked the photobucket code.

Offline Captainkirk

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Re: Newly acquired Police model
« Reply #34 on: June 17, 2015, 07:05:49 PM »
Man, those are nice! Never seen a SS pocket police before. You might be hearing from Fingers McGee soon....
"You gonna pull those pistols, or whistle Dixie?"

Offline Fingers McGee

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Re: Newly acquired Police model
« Reply #35 on: June 17, 2015, 09:00:54 PM »
Man, those are nice! Never seen a SS pocket police before. You might be hearing from Fingers McGee soon....

Yep, this soon enough?

Hey cidcw4, how long have you had the SS Pocket Police and the other SS Uberti's?  I'd like to have the info on them to add to my database on Allen Firearms SS Uberti's.  So far I have info on 23 of them - 5 (going on 6) of which are mine.  Would like the following info:  Model, barrel length, barrel markings, frame makings, serial number and date code.  Info from your 3 would bump the total up to 26 know revolvers.

From the picture, it looks like, in addition to the Pocket Police, you have a three screw '51 with square back trigger guard and 7 1/2 inch barrel; and a 4 screw cut for shoulder stock '60 Army with rebated cylinder.

Do you shoot them?

In case you haven't seen it, here s the post I've been running on the BP forums for about the last 5 or 6 years:

Update 1 June 2015

I am seeking the location of, and any information available on a line of stainless steel percussion Colt revolvers made by Uberti and imported by Allen Firearms, Santa Fe, NM; Southwest Muzzleloaders Supply, Inc. Angleton, TX, Uberti USA, and possibly others in the early to mid '80s. Phil Spangenberger did an article about these stainless revolvers in the October 1983 issue of Guns and Ammo Magazine. According to the article, the models that were being imported were the 1851 Navy, 1860 Army, 1861 Navy, 1862 Pocket Navy, and 1862 Pocket police. Thanks to Dr. J.L. Davis of RPRCA, Claremore, OK, I have a 1984 price list for Uberti products that lists fourteen different models of Stainless Steel Colts produced by Uberti at that time. Subsequent price lists expanded the line to 16 models by adding 4 ½ inch barreled Pocket Navy and Pocket Police. The complete model list, known so far, is:

1851 Navy, Oval Trigger guard Revolver, Cal. .36
1851 Navy Square back Trigger guard Revolver, Cal. .36 *@
1851 Navy “Sheriff’s Model” Oval Trigger guard Revolver, Cal. .36 *
1851 Navy “Sheriff’s Model” Square back Trigger guard Revolver, Cal. .36
1860 Army Military, Cut For Stock, Cal. .44 *@
1860 Army Military, With Fluted Cylinder, Revolver, Cal. .44*@
1861 Navy Military, Cut For Stock, Revolver, Cal. .36 * @
1861 Navy Civilian, Revolver, Cal. .36
1861 Navy Military, With Fluted Cylinder, Revolver, Cal. .36
1861 Navy Civilian, With Fluted Cylinder, Revolver, Cal. .36
1862 Police, Semi-Fluted Cylinder, Revolver, Cal. .36, Barrel 4 ½”
1862 Police, Semi-Fluted Cylinder, Revolver, Cal. .36, Barrel 5 ½”*
1862 Police, Semi-Fluted Cylinder, Revolver, Cal. .36, Barrel 6 ½”
1862 Pocket Navy, Engraved Cylinder, Revolver, Cal. .36, Barrel 4 ½”*
1862 Pocket Navy, Engraved Cylinder, Revolver, Cal. .36, Barrel 5 ½”*
1862 Pocket Navy, Engraved Cylinder, Revolver, Cal. .36, Barrel 6 ½”
(* - have identified location of examples of these models)
(@ - have this model)

So far, I have five of these revolvers and know of eighteen others in hands of other collectors or BP shooters. Anyone with information concerning Allen Firearms, Southwest Muzzleloaders Supply or any other Uberti Stainless Steel Colt style revolvers is requested to contact fingersmcgee@charter.net I am seeking information as to models, manufacture dates, serial numbers, barrel markings, barrel lengths, trigger guards, and any other characteristics as well as any catalog, brochure and original packaging information.

Of course, if anyone has any for sale, I would be interested in that also.

Thanks in advance for any info.

Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee

BTW, Here are four of my Ubertis:



« Last Edit: June 17, 2015, 09:11:06 PM by Fingers McGee »
Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee - AKA Man of Many Colts; SASS 28564-L-TG, rangemaster and stage writer extraordinaire; Frontiersman/Pistoleer, NRA Endowment Life, Central Ozarks Western Shooters
Cynic: A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they should be.  Ambrose Bierce

Offline cidcw4

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Re: Newly acquired Police model
« Reply #36 on: June 18, 2015, 05:11:12 AM »
Fingers:  I'm at work right now so I'll post the detailed information you are seeking later.  I just ran across the pocket police via Proxibids at an auction site in San Diego a couple of months ago.  BTW:  It came with the original box, or at least with what looks like the original box.  I only recognized it because I've seen your posts before about Allen Firearms.  It is your fault! The 1851 squareback is supposedly an Uberti prototype for Colt this guy is selling a few at a time on GB.  Last I looked he had 2 other models for sale and told me he had some more but never sent me pictures as promised.  It has Uberti markings and the Colt barrel address.  This became a discussion thread on Colt Forum.  I took a chance and bought this one. While is may or may not be what he said it was (his only provenance was a typed letter supposedly from Uberti's daughter) it does look nice.  It looks very different from the 2d Gen Colt 1851, totally different alloy and finish.  The barrel markings are somewhat different as well. 

The other Uberti is the 1860 4 screw which I bought several years ago off GB on the cheap. I've shot it a little and admire it a lot.  Of course the other two are 2d generation Colts and I'm sure you have several of those.

Regards

Offline mike116

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Re: Newly acquired Police model
« Reply #37 on: June 18, 2015, 06:31:24 AM »
I have noticed the "prototype" models offered on GunBroker lately.   There are two for sale there right now.   One is an 1860 Army and the other is a pocket Navy.   Hard to tell what the real deal is with these.

cidcw4,  did you get an original letter from Maria Uberti with your revolver or a copy?

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=488858701
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=489363292

Offline cidcw4

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Re: Newly acquired Police model
« Reply #38 on: June 18, 2015, 07:24:32 AM »
Mike116:  Just a photocopy with the original name blanked out. He will not give out the name of the supposed original purchaser.  Those two revolvers have been offered for sale for several weeks now with no takers.  I believe he wants too much for them regardless of their origin. I'm busy with other projects and am not interested in them at this time.  BTW:  I disassembled and did the magnet test on all of my 'stainless steel revolvers'.  The Uberti 1851 Navy 'prototype' had the strongest magnetic attraction on each part. On my other revolvers, there is a strong attraction with the barrel (to be expected) but much less on the other parts (cylinder, frame, arbor, loading lever, etc).  So is it really SS or "Inox" as the Europeans call them?  I don't know.  I intend to try and write Uberti USA but I've heard they rarely respond. I don't want to pay Colt prices for Uberti's and find out they are polished ferrous steel and not anything special; regardless of the Colt barrel addresses.  I've read that some of the Italian companies did that occasionally and Colt had to threaten them to get them to stop.  Even if they are 'prototypes', the 1851 I have is different from the 2d gen stainless steel guns so that prototype was a dead end anyway.  I doubt if there is any real collector value in them at this point.  But that is another story. If someone knew Maria Uberti Benson and if she is still with us I guess she could resolve the issue of if one of her family members was still associated with the company and had some records.

Offline mike116

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Re: Newly acquired Police model
« Reply #39 on: June 18, 2015, 09:47:29 AM »
There are a lot different types and grades of SS.  Some are mildly magnetic and others are not.   To be classified as SS the metal has to have about 11% chromium content.   Ferritic Stainless has enough iron in it to be magnetic but is still classified as Stainless Steel.   A magnet will stick to it but it is still corrosion resistant.   Austenitic SS is more corrosion resistant but also more expensive since it has a significant amount of nickel in it.  A magnet usually won't stick to Austenitic SS.
I would imagine that the Italians are using the least expensive SS they can get that will also be tough enough for use as gun parts.
Hard to say what will spark the interest of collectors.   At least you have an interesting story to along with a nice revolver.

Offline cidcw4

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Re: Newly acquired Police model
« Reply #40 on: June 18, 2015, 10:05:31 AM »
OK - you just exceeded my knowledge of metallurgy but light years.  I'm a retired Army cop, and a proud but struggling government bureaucrat, at least for the next 4 years until I hit my 2d retirement gate.  I suppose that someone could have a fascinating conversation with someone at Uberti about the variations of stainless steel used in their guns over the years.

Offline Captainkirk

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Re: Newly acquired Police model
« Reply #41 on: June 18, 2015, 10:15:35 AM »
Mike, if those are truly prototypes they are easily worth the BIN price! Even if not, (if) they are authentic Colts, they would be worth that and more.
Dang it....why is my money always tied up?
"You gonna pull those pistols, or whistle Dixie?"

Offline Fingers McGee

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Re: Newly acquired Police model
« Reply #42 on: June 18, 2015, 01:10:55 PM »
By rights, the prototypes should be hot items - from a purely collectors/historical context - and if I had unlimited funds, I would be interested in having all 30 plus that were supposedly made.  But, I don't and am not interested at the opening bid prices.  The manufacture date (1978) would coincide with the run up of the F Series 2nd Gens and are the same models that Colt's was going to market; although only 3 models were ever produced under Colt's banner. 

 

Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee - AKA Man of Many Colts; SASS 28564-L-TG, rangemaster and stage writer extraordinaire; Frontiersman/Pistoleer, NRA Endowment Life, Central Ozarks Western Shooters
Cynic: A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they should be.  Ambrose Bierce

Offline mike116

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Re: Newly acquired Police model
« Reply #43 on: June 18, 2015, 03:00:41 PM »
Mike, if those are truly prototypes they are easily worth the BIN price! Even if not, (if) they are authentic Colts, they would be worth that and more.
Dang it....why is my money always tied up?
I have the same problem.  I just invested $3500 in leather equipment.  No money for guns right now.   I am not a fan of SS guns anyway.  We may all be missing an opportunity by not buying these revolvers but I'm sure I've missed other deals before and this won't be last one.

Offline Fingers McGee

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Re: Newly acquired Police model
« Reply #44 on: June 18, 2015, 04:33:13 PM »
We may all be missing an opportunity by not buying these revolvers but I'm sure I've missed other deals before and this won't be last one.

Boy can I identify with that.
Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee - AKA Man of Many Colts; SASS 28564-L-TG, rangemaster and stage writer extraordinaire; Frontiersman/Pistoleer, NRA Endowment Life, Central Ozarks Western Shooters
Cynic: A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they should be.  Ambrose Bierce