Author Topic: Newly acquired Police model  (Read 8579 times)

Offline cidcw4

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 16
  • Newbie
    • View Profile
Re: Newly acquired Police model
« Reply #45 on: June 19, 2015, 04:42:14 AM »
Fingers:  The 1862 Police is described as the following:  4 1/2" barrel.  Barrel markings are "Allen FA MFG. CO - Santa Fe N.M..  Front sight is copper colored triangle shaped.  Left side of barrel is marked " CAL .36". Underneath the loading lever is the following:  "Black Powder Only 12165".  No markings on cylinder except there is a "5" next to one pin and a "6" and a "1" next to an adjacent pin.  Left side of frame is stamped (where Colt Patent would be on a Colt) "AUBERTI & CO ITALY". Bottom of frame is marked with the serial number.  Trigger guard is NOT marked with the serial number in the usual place.  Rights side of frame are the two normal Italian (Gardone & Brecia) proof marks and the year stamp AN inside a square (1985).  The wedge is plain, no stop or spring to lock it into place. Non-lacquered nicely grained grips.  Grip frame is stamped "19".  Trigger guard is stamped 1615 underneath the grips.  Trigger guard frame is stamped "1615" on lower right side.

The 1851 Square Back is the Uberti supposed prototype.  The barrel is just short of 7 1/2" (probably metric measurement?). The top of the barrel is stamped in very small letters "{ADDRESS SAML COLT NEW YORK CITY}.  Very different size and type of font from Colts. Conical brass front sight. Typical Italian proof marks and date stamp AD (1978). SN is AU17 in the 3 usual places. Breech face stamped with either an 18 or a 19.  Cylinder is roll marked with Texas sea battle scene (somewhat lighter than Colts), "Engaged 16 May 1843.  The words "COLTS PATENT No___" also on cylinder like Colts but no SN.  2 Cylinder pins are numbered "1 and a 6".  Cylinder face is stamped with Italian proof marks.  Grips are unvarnished, very similar grain wood to 2d Gen Colts.  The exterior of the frame is completely unmarked except for the SN on the bottom. On the frame next to the bolt slot is the number "7", not stamped, more like a burn mark.  The same "7" burn type mark appears on the inside of the grips.  Grips also pencil marked "19".  the number "19" also is stamped on the frame on the right rear where the brass grip frame attaches to the steel frame next to the trigger. It also appears on brass grip frame.  Arbor is about 3 1/4" as measured from the breech face. Interestingly the face of the arbor is stamped "19".  This revolver came with what may be the original box.  It is a Western Arms box with a plastic insert that fits the 1851 Navy.  If you want I can photograph it.

1860 4 Screw (it is a Armi Sao Paolo). Barrel measures 7 13/16", not 8" from the forcing cone to the front. Left side is stamped "MODEL 1860 .44 CAL".  Right side of barrel has the 2 Italian proof marks and FOR BLACKPOWDER ONLY MADE IN ITALY.  Bottom or base of barrel assembly is stamped with DGG and SN.  There are no numbers for the cylinder pins.  Cylinder is roll marked with the Texas Naval battle scene and stamped "PATENT No______ and "Patented Sep 10th 1860.  Right side of frame is stamped with 2 Italian proof marks and date stamp AH (1981).  The pins holding the hammer and action in place do not go all the way through the frame from left to right, they stop a little short inside the frame.  The arbor looks a bit short (probably part of reason it isn't too accurate). Grips are marked "173" as is the grip frame.  Grips are a light varnished wood.

When I get a chance I'll post some close up photos of the 1862 Police since you seem to be more interested in the Allen Firearms.  I've shot the 1860, but not the others yet.  They all appear to have been fired in the past but are in excellent condition.

If your research has any more info please share.

Enjoy

Offline Fingers McGee

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 723
  • Show Me Shootout 2014 - TTN Hammer gun & BP
    • View Profile
    • Central Ozarks Western Shooters
Re: Newly acquired Police model
« Reply #46 on: June 19, 2015, 09:22:21 AM »
Thanks for the info.  I'm guessing you typo'd the SN and it is 121615.  The markings are typical of the Uberti SS that I've run across so far.  Does the cylinder have Colt's Patent or just Patent where the SN would be on a Colt? And if just Patent, does it look like the Colt's has been buffed off  You are correct that I'm really only interested in the Allen FA SS Colt's.

You Pocket Police is the only one so far with the 4 1/2 inch barrel.  I know of a Pocket Navy with the short barrel also.  They were not offered when the SS models came out in 1983.  That length wasn't offered until 1985.  From the highest and lowest serial numbers that I know of, it appears that less then 500 of each of the 16 variations/models were made during the run between 1983 and 1987.   I've a price list from Southwest Muzzle Loaders Supply that lists the 4 1/2 pocket Police at $279.00 MSRP.

You may find that the Armi San Paolo is not stainless but polished in the white.

Ken
Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee - AKA Man of Many Colts; SASS 28564-L-TG, rangemaster and stage writer extraordinaire; Frontiersman/Pistoleer, NRA Endowment Life, Central Ozarks Western Shooters
Cynic: A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they should be.  Ambrose Bierce

Offline cidcw4

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 16
  • Newbie
    • View Profile
Re: Newly acquired Police model
« Reply #47 on: June 19, 2015, 09:50:48 AM »
Fingers:  Thanks for the feedback.  Yep, the SN is 121615 according to my written notes.  If you are asking about the cylinder on the Allen police model, there are no markings, period on the cylinder other than the numbers next to the nipples and pins. 

The 1851 is marked with "COLTS PATENT No". Colts will have part of the serial number, on this gun there is no serial number on the cylinder.

The 1860 is stamped "PATENT No" with no actual numbers, so all three are different from each other.

At first I thought the ASP was not SS either.  I took it apart and tested each part with magnets and compared the reaction to the reaction I got with my Colt 2d Gen stainless steel guns. The 1860 reacted the same as the Colts, strong magnetic attraction to the barrel, much less attraction to the cylinder and the frame (separately).  Hardly any attraction to the cylinders.  I have an older pricing guide from the 1990's that states that ASP among other companies did market stainless steel revolvers in this time frame.  I'll send you the citation when I find it again. I know I am not a metallurgist, but baring an actual metal test I now believe it is stainless steel. If I run across another Allen I'll let you know.  This was a pure chance encounter with the gun.  I post some of the close up pictures later.

Regards

Mike

Offline Fingers McGee

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 723
  • Show Me Shootout 2014 - TTN Hammer gun & BP
    • View Profile
    • Central Ozarks Western Shooters
Re: Newly acquired Police model
« Reply #48 on: June 19, 2015, 10:08:33 AM »
Thanks Mike.
Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee - AKA Man of Many Colts; SASS 28564-L-TG, rangemaster and stage writer extraordinaire; Frontiersman/Pistoleer, NRA Endowment Life, Central Ozarks Western Shooters
Cynic: A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they should be.  Ambrose Bierce