Author Topic: concealed carry  (Read 2145 times)

Offline omarkw

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concealed carry
« on: October 10, 2015, 07:54:20 PM »
I have seen that some of you carry c&b's concealed. Was wondering what states allow that without a permit.    Thanks, Mark
on these walks make your gun your constant companion.   TJ

Offline StrawHat

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Re: concealed carry
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2015, 04:00:47 AM »
The concealed carrying of a C&B revolver is covered by the same rules and regulations the govern the concealed carrying of any handgun.  The fact it is a C&B replica or otherwise is not the point.  The point is you are carrying a concealed weapon and as such the current rules apply. 

As such, a search of the laws covering concealed carry will get you your answer.

Kevin
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Offline mike116

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Re: concealed carry
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2015, 05:34:36 AM »
StrawHat is right,  laws are only concerned with the manner of carry (concealed or open) not what type of firearm you are carrying.  In Colorado you can open carry but concealed carry is by permit only and Cap and ball is not exempt.

Offline omarkw

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Re: concealed carry
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2015, 07:05:07 PM »
I know that guys, but some people on this forum have stated that in their states muzzle loaders are considered "non-guns" so are exempt from cc laws. I want to know what states these are.           Thanks, Mark
on these walks make your gun your constant companion.   TJ

Offline Eric N.

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Re: concealed carry
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2015, 07:20:33 PM »
In Minnesota,its a gun. If you get caught carrying it with out a permit,it is the gray bar motel for you. I have a permit.  I am thinking about carrying my 1860 Army 'Thunderer",just not all the time. I carry a Ruger SP 101 357Mag with a 3 inch barrel currently all the time.
The easy we make difficult,the difficult we make imposable.  Some days its so true.

Offline Electric Miner

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Re: concealed carry
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2015, 07:24:52 PM »
Arizona has concealed carry without a permit, so it's a moot point here.

Offline mike116

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Re: concealed carry
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2015, 07:35:53 PM »
Omarkw,   Like I stated previously in Colorado it makes no difference how the weapon is classified you cannot conceal it without a permit.  I don't know of any state that allows concealed carry of any firearm, cap and ball or otherwise without a permit except Arizona.  I'm not very familiar with the states back East so maybe someone who is will have more info.

Offline Electric Miner

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Re: concealed carry
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2015, 07:59:32 PM »
Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Wyoming and Vermont all have no permit concealed carry, and a number of others are working on it right now.

Offline StrawHat

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Re: concealed carry
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2015, 02:48:45 AM »
I know that guys, but some people on this forum have stated that in their states muzzle loaders are considered "non-guns" so are exempt from cc laws. I want to know what states these are.           Thanks, Mark

Just because someone says the C&B revolver is a "non-gun" does not make it so for concealed carry purposes.  They are breaking the law and if they want to be the poster child that tests the C&B clause, more power to them.  If you are carrying for the purpose of defending yourself, ie if the revolver is loaded, it is a weapon.

In some states, there are clauses that exempt C&B revolvers from background checks and registration BUT that does not exempt them from what you are asking.

I know people who believe the world is flat, that doesn't mean it is true, it is just what they believe.

Kevin
« Last Edit: October 13, 2015, 02:52:39 AM by StrawHat »
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Offline mike116

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Re: concealed carry
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2015, 04:42:04 AM »
Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Wyoming and Vermont all have no permit concealed carry, and a number of others are working on it right now.

Forgot about Alaska but was not aware Arkansas or Vermont allowed CC without a permit.   I'm going to verify Wyoming as it may be a fairly recent development.  I may have been misinformed.   I was told by a LEO there that open carry was OK but CC required a permit.   There may also be local ordinances that apply.

Offline omarkw

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Re: concealed carry
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2015, 05:50:50 PM »
Mike, I'm a permit holder in Colo also. I'm trying to get the people who have claimed that c&b revolvers are "non guns" to tell me where this is true, so I can check myself.    Thanks, Mark
on these walks make your gun your constant companion.   TJ

Offline mike116

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Re: concealed carry
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2015, 06:58:09 PM »
I gotcha omarkw ,  reality is that in the eyes of State Lawmakers when it comes to carrying a concealed weapon there are no "non guns".   Some may claim that since they are not classified as firearms by BATFE then it must be OK to carry them as concealed weapons.   Sadly I know of nowhere this is true.
I understand the information you are looking for I just am not sure it exists.   If there is somewhere that exempts cap and ball firearms from concealed carry permit requirements I would like to know about it too.

Offline G Dog

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Re: concealed carry
« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2015, 07:02:30 PM »
Omarkw - it’s a good question but you seem to be asking it in reverse.  You have attributed a statement to an unknown member with whom no one here agrees anyway.   

C&B revolvers in the various State Statutes are nowhere referred to as ‘non guns’.  It’ll be a long look trying to find that.  They are treated differently for various purposes and exempted from certain provisions for differing intended results.  What the boys here have said about C&B being treated just like all other firearms ‘capable of being concealed on the person’ for the specific purpose of CC is factually right on.  For other purposes (e.g. shipping, private transfers etc.) they are treated differently, but that does not make them ‘non guns’.

Looking for a direct reference to C&B can often be futile - so keep in mind that very often if C&B is not specifically excluded it is usually impliedly included.  Look for language like “The foregoing shall have no application to…”  or “For purposes of … shall not apply”. 

Statutory construction can be a little tricky, it's true, but keep in mind that any particular provision may use terms that are defined in a completely separate statute.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2015, 07:04:35 PM by G Dog »

Offline Electric Miner

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Re: concealed carry
« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2015, 08:41:32 PM »
In Arizona, black powder weapons of any sort are definitely considered to be the same as a modern cartridge weapon. I can't tell you about any other state. I've had felons here tell me they can carry a cap and ball, because they aren't guns, because you don't fill out federal paperwork to buy them. I have to tell them that they can indeed buy them, but if they get caught with them, they will go to jail.

Offline G Dog

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Re: concealed carry
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2015, 12:56:27 AM »

In that respect CA (for most Counties)  and AZ gun law is the same; imagine.

The ease of acquiring a C&B is really kinda surprising.  Even in most Calistan Counties a convicted felon, drug addicted mental institution escapee could take UPS delivery without  anyone the wiser. It would be illegal as all hell, but easily doable.  I’m glad we here can get them without a lot of bother and nonsense - but there really is something wrong with the overall picture.  Maybe not, I don’t know.  Any formulation of public policy is always full of tradeoffs and near imponderables.