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Author Topic: There are gun lovers here in the City of Angels  (Read 2771 times)

Offline G Dog

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Re: There are gun lovers here in the City of Angels
« Reply #30 on: January 21, 2016, 09:24:47 PM »
G-
Is that 5.5 a .36?
Nope.  The 5.5 incher is Pietta’s Remington .44 (2011) just like yours and already beginning to show some of that purple tint on the frame only.   My 6.5 inch is Pietta’s Remington .36 (also 2011) and shows no change from the original blue nor is my eight inch Pietta Rem (2000).

The Rem in the top photo I posted is reputed to be an eight inch forty four. Maybe you meant that one.

Hi mo58 - -
The second photo in my previous post #25 was taken by Battis, a member over on Remington 1858 and are of originals.  The photo below is on the net.  On the two Spillers each of the cone cut outs look the same to me. I am not aware of any modification but I can’t say definitely that it never happened.



P. S.  Mo58 - -
Were you speaking of the long V notch on the capping cutout like one finds on the Army '60?



« Last Edit: January 21, 2016, 09:50:52 PM by G Dog »

Offline Captainkirk

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Re: There are gun lovers here in the City of Angels
« Reply #31 on: January 22, 2016, 09:34:04 AM »
My bad, G.
I meant the 6.5 so you answered my question.
"You gonna pull those pistols, or whistle Dixie?"

Offline mo58

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Re: There are gun lovers here in the City of Angels
« Reply #32 on: January 22, 2016, 12:53:09 PM »
G Dog
Quote
The second photo in my previous post #25 was taken by Battis, a member over on Remington 1858 and are of originals.  The photo below is on the net.  On the two Spillers each of the cone cut outs look the same to me. I am not aware of any modification but I can’t say definitely that it never happened.

P. S.  Mo58 - -
Were you speaking of the long V notch on the capping cutout like one finds on the Army '60?

Ok.. Did not contemplate that being an actual original. Nice!
Comparing the recoil shield (cut-out shape/size) of originals ive seen pics of to what Pietta produces has made ponder why Pietta makes em the way they do. 
example of typical Pietta...
http://gunsoftheoldwest.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/spiller-burr-36-cal-brass-frame.jpg

Offline G Dog

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Re: There are gun lovers here in the City of Angels
« Reply #33 on: January 22, 2016, 03:05:05 PM »
Mo - - Wow. What a difference!!  I sure do see what you mean now.  That cut out area on the frame looks suspiciously similar to how they look on the Pietta Remington.  I think you may have caught Pietta cutting corners again, good eye.  Wonder why they don't just do it right?  I know ... money.  Still, gotta wonder.  Good observation there, bud.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2016, 03:09:29 PM by G Dog »

Offline Captainkirk

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Re: There are gun lovers here in the City of Angels
« Reply #34 on: January 22, 2016, 08:23:06 PM »
Definitely looks like a .36 cal Remmy cylinder on the Pietta.
"You gonna pull those pistols, or whistle Dixie?"

Offline mo58

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Re: There are gun lovers here in the City of Angels
« Reply #35 on: January 23, 2016, 09:42:07 AM »
Mo - - Wow. What a difference!!  I sure do see what you mean now.  That cut out area on the frame looks suspiciously similar to how they look on the Pietta Remington.  I think you may have caught Pietta cutting corners again, good eye.  Wonder why they don't just do it right?  I know ... money.  Still, gotta wonder.  Good observation there, bud.
Im sure anyone lucky enough to have an original would notice as soon as they looked at a replica.
My lack of basic knowledge shows...are these brass frames machined from solid block, cast, or a bit of both?  Either way, I cant see this as a money saver. Theres two cuts ...a straight angle and over that is the scallop. The angle is longer than an original S&B cut-out thus preventing a period correct looking scallop (without brazing) ...hmmm me thinks this may be a very conscious decision by Pietta to prevent a well made fake from entering the collectables market.  ?

Quote
Definitely looks like a .36 cal Remmy cylinder on the Pietta.
I dont have a 36 cal Remington cylinder, but if they are the same size as the .44 cals (?)  ...then this would give hope for a doable spare cylinder option for my Whitney.
The center hole would have to be reamed a bit, length shortened and diameter turned down a fair amount.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2016, 09:46:17 AM by mo58 »

Offline G Dog

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Re: There are gun lovers here in the City of Angels
« Reply #36 on: January 23, 2016, 11:48:07 AM »
Mo58 said: "  ...hmmm me thinks this may be a very conscious decision by Pietta to prevent a well made fake from entering the collectables market.  ? "

It’s doubtful that Pietta’s social conscience extends that far.  I seriously doubt they worry much about protecting the integrity of the antique revolver market.  But they would certainly be interested in saving money on tooling/retooling costs.  Still though, I think their S&B is very close to the real Confederate deal and a damn good looking revolver. 

Offline mo58

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Re: There are gun lovers here in the City of Angels
« Reply #37 on: January 24, 2016, 02:14:57 AM »
Mo58 said: "  ...hmmm me thinks this may be a very conscious decision by Pietta to prevent a well made fake from entering the collectables market.  ? "

It’s doubtful that Pietta’s social conscience extends that far.  I seriously doubt they worry much about protecting the integrity of the antique revolver market.  But they would certainly be interested in saving money on tooling/retooling costs.  Still though, I think their S&B is very close to the real Confederate deal and a damn good looking revolver.
oh hum...youre most likely right.  Thinkin too much to come up with a more noble justification.  L@J

Offline mo58

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Re: There are gun lovers here in the City of Angels
« Reply #38 on: January 27, 2016, 03:00:51 PM »
Quote
That's just what I did : round the octagon barrel of a 1851, and file the engraving from the cylinder.
ha! well there ya go! Italians would have done the same darn thing... so just as legit  ;)
Maybe you're right after all... Maybe I did what was best.
After all, as the Duke said "a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do"...  ;)
Definitely is a future project i would also like to do.  I would also love to mount a rear sight on the barrel  ...ive super glued a sight on a 51 as such and found my eyes liked it.  S# 51 and JB have rear sights on the barrel. Not sure if Dance & Bros made em that way or if the owners altered them.
Nice example of Dance made from a 51(?)...
http://www.lodgewood.com/First-Model-Dance-Brothers-Navy-Revolver_c_247.html
Love the hammer work ...and the turned line on the cylinder is a pretty touch.

Hey...youre in France? ...hangin out at these gun forums.  ..thats almost as bad as being from California!  :P

Offline Ringo

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Re: There are gun lovers here in the City of Angels
« Reply #39 on: January 27, 2016, 03:47:12 PM »
Quote
That's just what I did : round the octagon barrel of a 1851, and file the engraving from the cylinder.
ha! well there ya go! Italians would have done the same darn thing... so just as legit  ;)
Maybe you're right after all... Maybe I did what was best.
After all, as the Duke said "a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do"...  ;)
Definitely is a future project i would also like to do.  I would also love to mount a rear sight on the barrel  ...ive super glued a sight on a 51 as such and found my eyes liked it.  S# 51 and JB have rear sights on the barrel. Not sure if Dance & Bros made em that way or if the owners altered them.
Nice example of Dance made from a 51(?)...
http://www.lodgewood.com/First-Model-Dance-Brothers-Navy-Revolver_c_247.html
Love the hammer work ...and the turned line on the cylinder is a pretty touch.

Hey...youre in France? ...hangin out at these gun forums.  ..thats almost as bad as being from California!  :P
Not only am I in France, but I am French too ! I guess that makes it even worse, doesn't it ?...  L@J
Regarding the Dance revolvers, it appears a few originals were made with rear sights, as shown on this picture from Heritage Arms Magazine (April 2012) :

I agree about the hammer work and the line on the cylinder on the Dance repro, but I must say I don't really like the engraving on the backstrap.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2016, 05:43:17 PM by Ringo »

Offline mo58

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Re: There are gun lovers here in the City of Angels
« Reply #40 on: January 27, 2016, 06:53:41 PM »
yep theres #JB and #51.  ...both have rear sights but are also the oddballs. Recoil shields and the 44 has an octagon barrel.
As for Krolick's Dance build (gun I linked to) 
Quote
This pistol is an early Navy (.36) caliber model. It was copied from original guns pictured in the book Dance Brothers: Texas Gunmakers to the Confederacy.
  which one did he copy? ...looks to me like he went for an amalgamation of a few.  Sometimes the best Art lies somewhere between a copy of what has already been and a fantasy of what could have been.
Quote
I agree about the hammer work and the line on the cylinder on the Dance repro, but I must say I don't really like the engraving on the backstrap.
i gotta open the book and see if that beautiful hammer truly copied something.   I agree that the backstrap 'scrimshaw' is a bit forced.  I suspect that it is an attempt to copy something real... humble n primitive as it was on some surviving Dance.   I will add that even though his aging technique is fairly fantastic, IMHO its WAY too consistent  ...perfect..like if Pietta produced a limited quantity of 'antique found in grandfathers attic' finished revolvers. 

Offline Ringo

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Re: There are gun lovers here in the City of Angels
« Reply #41 on: January 27, 2016, 07:29:20 PM »
yep theres #JB and #51.  ...both have rear sights but are also the oddballs. Recoil shields and the 44 has an octagon barrel
I have to admit I went the easy way and uploaded a picture I already have on my PC.
I just checked Wiggins' book, and the only revolvers he shows that have rear sights are good old JB and 51. Nothing in Texas Gun Lore either, and nothing in any other article I have. In fact, there's nothing in my documentation about the Dances that might tell whether these rear sights have or have not been mounted on these revolvers in the Dance workshop, and that any other specimen has or has not been fitted with such a rear sight.
Regarding the design on the backstrap, I have seen nothing of the like on any picture in the book or any article. One Dance revolver has some engraving on the butt part of the grip, but it does not look the same.
I let you check for the hammer design... I am too sleepy now to go on tonight (it is already pas 4:25 Am here, and my eyelids won't stay up long now). :-[

Offline G Dog

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Re: There are gun lovers here in the City of Angels
« Reply #42 on: January 27, 2016, 10:47:37 PM »

Offline Bishop Creek

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Re: There are gun lovers here in the City of Angels
« Reply #43 on: January 28, 2016, 08:29:55 PM »
Hey...youre in France? ...hangin out at these gun forums.  ..thats almost as bad as being from California!  :P

Hey! I'm from California and of French ancestry. I resemble those remarks.

Offline G Dog

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Re: There are gun lovers here in the City of Angels
« Reply #44 on: January 30, 2016, 12:38:39 PM »
Yea Mo, me too.  I’m also from California but Anglo-Saxon/Celtic … so I just half resemble those remarks. 

I really like that simi-flutted cylinder on your '51, that's a good look. I have a Pietta '61 with those half-flutes.  That's my one concession to the counter-historic, cause they look so cool.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2016, 12:57:28 PM by G Dog »