Author Topic: A new used Uberti 1851  (Read 5511 times)

Offline ssb73q

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A new used Uberti 1851
« on: February 18, 2016, 11:00:14 AM »
Hi, the Uberti 1851 Navy Frederic Remington commemorative .36 cal revolver I purchased from Mike arrived today. Mike even gave me a new pistol muff.

This revolver is described with photos here:
http://blackpowdersmoke.com/colt/index.php?topic=1473.msg13277#msg13277

The fit and timing is excellent, as is all the metalwork. The bore is sharp and excellent. While there is minor holster wear, the finish is very good. Mike described the frame and loading lever as "in the white", but I suspect that the white is either silver or nickel. I put a little cold blue on the underside of the lever. It didn't blue like on steel, very light stain. There is zero rust on the white finish so I don't think it is bare steel or stainless steel. More experimentation is needed.

The engraving is much deeper than the laser engraving on current production Piettas, but suspect it is some automated process. In any event, it looks great.

Being a Uberti, this revolver still requires an arbor extension to properly set the barrel/cylinder gap. There are also some screws in the grip that have poor fitting screwdriver issues. Those screws will be replaced.

I spent hours doing internet research trying to find out more about this 1851 sold through the New England Collectors Society. There is very little information other than they also created a collectible 1858 Remington called 'The Rattlesnake" made by Pietta. There must have been more 1858s sold than the 1851. If anyone knows more about the New England Collectors Society 1851 please post that information.

The dilemma I'm now faced with is if this is simply a display revolver, or shooter. I'm leaning to shooter. If that's the path I take, a 38 Colt/38 Special conversion cylinder for this Uberti is in the future. While I don't understand it, the feel of this Uberti in my hand is superior to my Pietta 1851s.

I will soon take this revolver apart to inspect the interior parts.

Bottom line, I am very happy for my purchase, thank you Mike!  :) :)

Regards,
Richard

There’s nothing better in the morning than the smell of bacon and black powder smoke!

Offline mike116

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Re: A new used Uberti 1851
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2016, 03:44:45 PM »
Richard,   I have tried many sources for more info on the revolvers done by the New England Collectors Society.   I even called Dr. Jim Davis about it.  He is the person who told me the unblued parts of the revolver were "in the white" and the parts are lightly brushed rather than highly polished.   He also offered to put me in contact with a couple people who would be willing to buy it from me.   I wasn't looking to sell it at the time so I declined.    Dr. Davis was the only person I found who even knew of the 1851 Navy and 1858 Remington collector revolvers.   A member on the Remington forum was the owner of the 1858 "Rattlesnake" model but he didn't know much about them either.
Glad you are happy and that it was delivered a day earlier than expected.   

Offline StrawHat

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Re: A new used Uberti 1851
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2016, 03:46:10 PM »
Glad to hear it arrived and you are pleased.  Waiting to see your photos.

I have always preferred Uberti revolvers over the other brand.  They have consistently had better quality.

Good luck with it.  Will you get the conversion cylinder engraved to match?  I think it would not look right without being engraved.

Kevin
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Offline ssb73q

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Re: A new used Uberti 1851
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2016, 04:38:08 AM »
Hi, I already noticed something never seen before with my other BP revolvers, there is a depression in the hammer face. Since this revolver hasn't been fired many times, the depression wasn't caused by excessive shooting or dry firing, Excessive dry firing with a poorly fitted hammer leaves a ring from the nipple, not a depression. Also, there isn't any mushrooming of the nipple ends on this revolver. It was hard to take a closeup photo, but here is a photo of the hammer face:



It looks like the hammer depression was a method to set the correct hammer to nipple clearance?

Has anyone seen this before?

Regards,
Richard
There’s nothing better in the morning than the smell of bacon and black powder smoke!

Offline Ringo

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Re: A new used Uberti 1851
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2016, 05:27:05 AM »
This is a (bad) photo of my 1972 Pietta "1851 turned Dance" revolver's hammer :

Although it does not have the safety notch, it still has the same depression. In my eyes, that depression is too hollow and neat to have been caused by anything else than machining.

Offline ssb73q

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Re: A new used Uberti 1851
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2016, 06:16:24 AM »
Hi Ringo, that's very interesting, thanks for the photo. My Uberti was made in 1987. So maybe the hammer depression was a manufacturing technique to properly set hammer to nipple distance with the early repos, both Uberti and Pietta?

Another unusual aspect of my Uberti 1851 is that it has the last four numbers of the serial number on the end of the arbor. I believe that Colt put those numbers on every removable large part of their revolvers back in the day?

I'm now JB Welding two brass washers on the end of the Uberti 1851 arbor. After the epoxy has hardened the arbor will be sized to produce a constant 0.002-0.003" gap.

Regards,
Richard
There’s nothing better in the morning than the smell of bacon and black powder smoke!

Offline 45 Dragoon

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Re: A new used Uberti 1851
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2016, 06:38:11 AM »
Still using brass huh? 
  The epoxy will compress so don't use much. (Just a hunch.  .  .  .  .  .  no, really, it will compress)

Mike
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Offline Ringo

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Re: A new used Uberti 1851
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2016, 07:25:10 AM »
Another unusual aspect of my Uberti 1851 is that it has the last four numbers of the serial number on the end of the arbor. I believe that Colt put those numbers on every removable large part of their revolvers back in the day?
Hi Richard,
Here is what David Stroud writes when describing the 1851 Navy in an article that was published in issue 4 of the Texas Rangers Dispatch :

I have checked both Shumaker's "Old Model Pocket Pistol" and Swayze's "'51 Navies" but could not find any reference to the place where the serial numbers are to be found. I may very well have missed them though...
Cheers.

Offline ssb73q

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Re: A new used Uberti 1851
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2016, 09:10:25 AM »
Hi, did some more testing of what is the "white" finish on the Uberti frame. Using cold bluing I painted some bluing on a worn part on the back of the frame and on an unworn area. The worn area took the bluing nicely while the unworn area didn't change color. This suggests to me that there is some silver like plating on the frame. IMO it is most probably nickel.

BTW, I ordered a plain Howell 38 Colt/38 Special conversion cylinder for this revolver for shooting. I'll set the barrel/cylinder gap to ~0.005" until I get the conversion cylinder, just in case the conversion cylinder is longer than the C&B cylinder. If both the C&B and conversion cylinder are the same length, I will shorten the brass arbor extension to produce a 0.002" gap. Also ordered a Wolff reduced power spring for the revolver.

Regards,
Richard
« Last Edit: February 19, 2016, 09:12:09 AM by ssb73q »
There’s nothing better in the morning than the smell of bacon and black powder smoke!

Offline 45 Dragoon

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Re: A new used Uberti 1851
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2016, 10:24:00 AM »
Just for those thinking about "fixing " your arbor, I don't really care if you you add to your arbor or fill in the arbor hole, do yourself a favor and use steel washers/shims. What you are fixing is a path for force to follow. Sam Colt used brass for trigger guards and/or backstraps, not arbors. There's a reason for that.
 If you use an epoxy type adhesive to hold the washers/shims in place, use only the smallest amount as the layer of adhesive will compress. If you fill in the arbor hole as your method, you can minimize or  remove this compression by assembling and forcefully installing the wedge which will cause the adhesive to be displaced even into the space around the end of the arbor/ between the arbor and the arbor hole, thereby "bedding"  the end of the arbor at the same time.  I don't use the other method mentioned so I cannot advise. 
  I'm just trying to pass along my experience to those that want to learn with less trial and error in there efforts. This method works and works very well.  You end up with not only a fitted and bedded arbor, but a like material for transmission of force instead of adding a material of lesser quality .

No offense intended or implied with this post. Just trying to give the best information I can for those interested in listening/learning.


Mike
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« Last Edit: February 19, 2016, 10:29:46 AM by 45 Dragoon »

Offline ssb73q

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Re: A new used Uberti 1851
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2016, 11:02:57 AM »
Hi Mike, to quote a famous Person, "Whoever has ears, let them hear."

So far, the brass filler has worked for me. If it eventually fails, I will do something else.

You have the experience and knowledge where none of us can come close. I'm a retired scientist and choose a different path, live and learn. There are lots of ways to skin a cat.

Please keep posting your methods that can't ever fail for those with ears. I choose and like pushing a different envelope. That's my hobby and I'm unlikely to change.

Regards,
Richard
There’s nothing better in the morning than the smell of bacon and black powder smoke!

Offline Captainkirk

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Re: A new used Uberti 1851
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2016, 11:44:51 AM »
Mike;
What is your opinion on boring the arbor tip and installing an Allen head set screw instead of shims?
"You gonna pull those pistols, or whistle Dixie?"

Offline 45 Dragoon

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Re: A new used Uberti 1851
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2016, 12:47:52 PM »
Richard,
 A very famous person indeed!!

 I won't say my methods won't fail (did I ?), I've just done lots of them over time and after thousands and thousands of rounds fired, they seem to hold up and maintain tollerances well (scientific?). I understand your need to "follow your own path", I do too, but it's not too hard to understand that steel (in a force transmission application) will stand up better than a softer material.
 Of course, I'm not a scientist though .  .  .  .  .   (not gonna let any grey matter get in my way!!!!! Lol!!)
 Thanks Richard.

Capin!!,
  I don't know where or who does that. I don't think I've ever seen it anywhere as an arbor fix.  I've heard it as if it were a method used but,  I'd never do it. The " fix" is a solid butt joint (of one assy to another) and not adjustable so no need for threads and such.
 I do use a set screw in the end of the arbor for use as a front bearing surface for the wedge though. In other words, it doesn't protrude forward of the arbor but rather towards the wedge. This allows the user to "customize" the wedge placement as well as compensate for wedge wear over time. For instance, if you have a two gun rig, your wedge may interfere with the holster on the left side so you can move the wedge position inward to alleviate that (Right side for you Walker folks).  So, what you ultimately end up with is - a fitted/bedded arbor with an adjustable wedge keyway.

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
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Offline sourdough

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Re: A new used Uberti 1851
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2016, 02:19:42 PM »
After reading Mike's last post here, I have to make a point to save up enough bucks to have him perform his magic on at least one of my pistols.

I just love his perspective and common sense knowledge about Colt replica open tops.

I had better stop shooting and putting money into a Goon account.

Jim

Online Bishop Creek

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Re: A new used Uberti 1851
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2016, 02:57:54 PM »
Me too sourdough, I have a Goon savings account going right now for my 1860 Army.