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Author Topic: A new used Uberti 1851  (Read 4165 times)

Offline 45 Dragoon

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Re: A new used Uberti 1851
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2016, 03:26:40 PM »
You guys!!!



Thanks.

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
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Offline ssb73q

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Re: A new used Uberti 1851
« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2016, 09:24:13 AM »
Hi, the JB Weld and brass washers on the end of the arbor set up well and I filed the first brass washer to produce an average gap of ~0.005". Interesting that the forcing cone end of the barrel isn't parallel to the cylinder, the barrel edge closest to the arbor is ~0.002-3" closer to the cylinder than the top of the barrel. Wear on the cylinder face shows this to be an issue from day one. A little truing of the barrel end is required to have both the forcing cone end and cylinder parallel.

I took the revolver apart and other than some screw slot issues, everything looks great. When the Wolff reduced power spring comes in I will install it in the revolver. At that time I will also replace any screws that aren't absolutely perfect. The brass parts of the revolver were polished with BrassO, the internal parts Ballistolled and the revolver reassembled. This Uberti engraved revolver looks beautiful. It will be a joy to shoot with a 38 Special conversion cylinder. The revolver is now crying out for a Leathersmith Mike's holster.

BTW, use caution if wanting to add a reduced power spring to a Colt where you will do mostly C&B shooting. Cap misfires on the first hammer strike are common. The second strike will always set the cap off. When casual shooting at my range, I like the occasional misfires, it tells me about my shooting technique. The reason I use the reduced power spring on Colts is mostly for conversion cylinder use, it minimizes firing pin end mushrooming.

Regards,
Richard
There’s nothing better in the morning than the smell of bacon and black powder smoke!

Offline Captainkirk

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Re: A new used Uberti 1851
« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2016, 07:37:08 PM »
Capin!!,
  I don't know where or who does that. I don't think I've ever seen it anywhere as an arbor fix.  I've heard it as if it were a method used but,  I'd never do it. The " fix" is a solid butt joint (of one assy to another) and not adjustable so no need for threads and such.
 I do use a set screw in the end of the arbor for use as a front bearing surface for the wedge though. In other words, it doesn't protrude forward of the arbor but rather towards the wedge. This allows the user to "customize" the wedge placement as well as compensate for wedge wear over time. For instance, if you have a two gun rig, your wedge may interfere with the holster on the left side so you can move the wedge position inward to alleviate that (Right side for you Walker folks).  So, what you ultimately end up with is - a fitted/bedded arbor with an adjustable wedge keyway.

Mike:
Someone, somewhere did an article on using an Allen head screw to set arbor length and even recommended boring the boss under the barrel for Allen wrench access to set the cylinder gap "on the gun". This same article recommended applying LocTite to the threads prior to setting the gap. Wish I could remember where I read this?
Can't see why it wouldn't work? Pettifogger in his "Tuning the Open Top Colts" series, recommends using a brass button off a Dillon reloader. Nice idea, but I find the concept of an adjustable stop far more intriguing.

"Tuning the Open Top Colts"
http://blackpowdersmoke.com/colt/index.php?topic=115.0
"You gonna pull those pistols, or whistle Dixie?"

Offline 45 Dragoon

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Re: A new used Uberti 1851
« Reply #18 on: February 20, 2016, 10:11:56 PM »
Captain,
  Why would you want to change the bbl/cyl clearance once it is established?  I don't understand any advantage of an adjustable clearance. A tight tolerance is clean and efficient and holds the cylinder movement to a "non-destructive" amount.

  As far as a set screw being the fix, my opinion is that the full contact of the end of the arbor is best for the transfer of force through the arbor. A set screw obviously would have less surface contact to transfer the same force. Besides, in some revolvers, the end of the arbor hole is rather thin and wouldn't offer much support for a set screw and the arbor would more than likely punch the screw right out. At least adding steel shim material to the arbor hole helps to spread the area of transfer as well as strengthening that area.

  Pettifogger's article is a good one and I highly recommend it to folks  that are interested in this fix. It gets across the idea of what and why and Larson gives his version of how to fix the problem. It's obvious that Richard likes his approach and that is fine.  But, it isn't "law set in stone" and so I would rather go about it in a more H.D. way by using steel instead of brass. Adding to the hole instead of adding to the arbor. It could be my automotive / aeronautical background that looks for "over kill" methods rather than "it'll work"  type methods.  I want a method/ system that is the best you can get or "bullet proof" as they say.  My method works for me and my customers so, I'll keep at it.

Of course, as I said, none of this is "written in stone" so be my guest and see if your thoughts of how to improve on this arbor "fix" will work. It's how we learn.

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
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« Last Edit: February 20, 2016, 10:24:02 PM by 45 Dragoon »

Offline Captainkirk

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Re: A new used Uberti 1851
« Reply #19 on: February 20, 2016, 10:19:09 PM »
Captain,
 Why would you want to change the bbl/cyl clearance once it is established?  I don't understand any advantage of an adjustable clearance.
Wear and tear? Just thinking out loud...
WRT available wear surface, I was thinking more on the lines of a steel washer brazed or silver-soldered to the head of an Allen screw so you can access the hex through the hole in the washer. That way you could set your initial clearance, and if it ever changed you could adjust it without much work. It would also allow full contact.
"You gonna pull those pistols, or whistle Dixie?"

Offline 45 Dragoon

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Re: A new used Uberti 1851
« Reply #20 on: February 20, 2016, 10:49:51 PM »
OK, I'll bite.
 If it changes, (in my opinion) it wasn't done right! Lol
 
But, let's say you do it "right" (whatever that is) and it still changes. One of two things happened.

1.Clearance got smaller- tapping in the wedge and it locks the cylinder. Maybe too much epoxy (when fixed) and it compressed over time. Or whatever.
  Solution- add a steel shim. Easy fix.

2. Clearance got bigger- huh?!!! - tapping in the wedge and it tightens but the clearance is bigger! I don't know, arbor grew? Cylinder shrunk? Whatever.
 Solution- dress the arbor down till you reach desired clearance.

 These are ment to be comic but IF either situation happened (more likely the 1st one) you should take it very seriously and make sure of the reason. Barring anything wrong with the arbor threads being pulled or some other serious problem, the "fix" would be as simple as an added shim or a dressed arbor.

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
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Offline StrawHat

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Re: A new used Uberti 1851
« Reply #21 on: February 21, 2016, 03:44:58 AM »
I find it odd.  We have a member who actually does this sort of thing on a daily basis, perhaps even makes a living doing it.  One would think the method he uses would have been well considered so he has very few, if any, returns.  Yet, everyone and his brother wants to show a different method.  I get it, at least once a week I have home sharpeners brag about how the method they use is better than what I can do.  It is the nature of man to try to put down those who are successful at what they do.  I have only met a few, actually very few, who were so convinced they had the better mouse trap that they went into the business.

Kevin
Knowledge carried to the grave unshared, is wasted.

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Offline ssb73q

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Re: A new used Uberti 1851
« Reply #22 on: February 21, 2016, 04:34:17 AM »

It is the nature of man to try to put down those who are successful at what they do.

Kevin

Hi Kevin, I don't agree. It's the nature of man to find better ways of doing things. Our technological advancements depend on that. Most of the Nobel Prize winners did their discovery work when in their early 20s before someone told them it couldn't be done. I have many patents on things where people (including my bosses) told me it couldn't be done or work. If Mike was tied to the technology of what Colt originally did, he wouldn't have any work to do. We wouldn't have conversion cylinders, or modern firearms.

I always enjoy seeing someone try a new method to improve any technology.

And yes, I sharpen my own knifes.  )lI )lI )lI

Well, that's my case and I'm sticking to it.

Regards,
Richard
There’s nothing better in the morning than the smell of bacon and black powder smoke!

Offline 45 Dragoon

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Re: A new used Uberti 1851
« Reply #23 on: February 21, 2016, 06:38:00 AM »
Thanks Kevin,
  I happen to agree with you .  .  .  .  .  and Richard (to a point). 

 My evidence is just how well the "class warfare" is doing these days. I can't believe we actually have a self proclaimed Socialist running for President of our country using the "evil rich" platform ( actually the punish the successful risk takers and give it to the lazy "give me free stuff" crowd). There is much evidence to support your put down the successful guy statement.

 And, Richard is correct in his ides about advancing an idea. It's natural to try to make "the better mousetrap". I understand that. The package I put together for my service is a culmination of several " bests" (what I consider best) from different gun makers with old world setup thrown in. ( I don't agree with the "Pulitzer Prize winner" thing though. Look at the "winner" we have sitting in the Whitehouse!! For what? ). 
  I know some patent holders and thats all fine, but a patent just shows you the parameters you have to work around to make something better.

I will say though, all I work on is cap a ball revolvers  and it hasn't slowed down since I started. Being "tied " to Colts technology is keeping me very busy!

Mike
www.goonsgunworks
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« Last Edit: February 21, 2016, 06:40:26 AM by 45 Dragoon »

Offline sourdough

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Re: A new used Uberti 1851
« Reply #24 on: February 21, 2016, 04:34:24 PM »

My evidence is just how well the "class warfare" is doing these days. I can't believe we actually have a self proclaimed Socialist running for President of our country using the "evil rich" platform ( actually the punish the successful risk takers and give it to the lazy "give me free stuff" crowd). There is much evidence to support your put down the successful guy statement.

And, Richard is correct in his ides about advancing an idea. It's natural to try to make "the better mousetrap". I understand that. The package I put together for my service is a culmination of several " bests" (what I consider best) from different gun makers with old world setup thrown in. ( I don't agree with the "Pulitzer Prize winner" thing. though. Look at the "winner" we have sitting in the Whitehouse!! For what? ). 
Mike
www.goonsgunworks
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks

Mike, I admire you for your work on open top Colts and the services you do for us folks, but...

Your politics (or any politics) on any BP forum should be shunned. The GCA 1968 specifically omitted muzzle-loading firearms insofar as BATF(E) oversight.

I will reply to you via PM, sir.

Jim

 

Offline Captainkirk

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Re: A new used Uberti 1851
« Reply #25 on: February 21, 2016, 05:05:01 PM »
I find it odd.  We have a member who actually does this sort of thing on a daily basis, perhaps even makes a living doing it.  One would think the method he uses would have been well considered so he has very few, if any, returns.  Yet, everyone and his brother wants to show a different method.  I get it, at least once a week I have home sharpeners brag about how the method they use is better than what I can do.  It is the nature of man to try to put down those who are successful at what they do.  I have only met a few, actually very few, who were so convinced they had the better mouse trap that they went into the business.

Kevin

I, for one, am not "questioning" Mike's take on the issue. If I were, I wouldn't have one of my Army's being worked by him to his specs as we speak. His method is tried and true from his perspective. However, the article I mentioned did it "another way" which sounded quite reasonable at the time, so I posed the question as if in a "why, or why NOT?" fashion. Mike gave his reasoning. Does that mean we should stop asking questions, or thinking through a "better mousetrap" scenario? I sure hope not.
"You gonna pull those pistols, or whistle Dixie?"

Offline 45 Dragoon

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Re: A new used Uberti 1851
« Reply #26 on: February 21, 2016, 07:32:53 PM »
Hey Cap,
 I didn't take it any other way, that's why I answered the way I did. Some folks question and I try to answer if I can. You always respond. That let's me know you at least read it and (hopefully ) even consider it. The things I mention sometimes have to do with what I do to make this a living for me. Even so, I put it out there but, there's been a few occasions after doing so, it's like a slap in the face when they go right ahead without acknowledging a reason why or why not. So, I've decided to let them start with a wooden wheel every day. I like to learn but if I can't get feedback, I'll keep my mouth shut.

Mike
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Offline ssb73q

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Re: A new used Uberti 1851
« Reply #27 on: February 22, 2016, 10:24:36 AM »
Hi, the Wolff 32280 reduced power spring arrived today and was installed in the Uberti 1851. The hammer and trigger pull is now so sweet in this 1851. I should get the new frame screws and conversion cylinder later this week.

As a side note, the mounting hole in the Wolff 32280 reduced power spring is always a bit too small for the spring mounting screw in Colts. A little filing with a round jewelers file opens the hole so that the screw will fit properly.

This revolver is so beautiful that I haven't' been able to put it down since I received it. There are few love affairs better than a nice 1851 Navy?  &\? &\? &\?

Regards,
Richard

There’s nothing better in the morning than the smell of bacon and black powder smoke!

Offline mike116

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Re: A new used Uberti 1851
« Reply #28 on: February 22, 2016, 03:43:27 PM »
Hi Richard,   I am happy to see that the '51 Navy is now getting all the attention it deserves.   When I first obtained it I took it with me on a trip to Montana,  shot it one afternoon while there and since then it hasn't seen the light of day for several years.

Offline ssb73q

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Re: A new used Uberti 1851
« Reply #29 on: February 22, 2016, 07:42:16 PM »
Hi Mike, from the condition (internal and external) of the Uberti 1851 it's clear you gave it tender loving care. I will continue the excellent care tradition you started with this revolver.

Regards,
Richard
There’s nothing better in the morning than the smell of bacon and black powder smoke!