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Author Topic: Revolver "Chain Fires"  (Read 197 times)

Offline ssb73q

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Re: Revolver "Chain Fires"
« Reply #15 on: June 12, 2019, 09:36:00 AM »
Hi, any discussion about chainfires is simply conjecture. To my knowledge there have never been definitive chainfire experiments. Since conjecture, my two cents:

I have never had a chainfire after shooting many thousands of C&B rounds. I mostly use lubed wads and a BP sub Black Mz. Have also shot many rounds without any lube with no chainfires. Unless one uses swaged round balls, most hand cast balls have surface defects. Pure lead also anneals at room temperature almost immediately after loading. There is little sealing force of the lead against the cylinder chamber wall. I also use 0.454" balls in .44 caliber and 0.380" balls in .36 caliber guns. A large ball shears off more lead that would minimize any ball surface defects. Also, BP subs have a higher ignition temperature that may minimize any exposed powder lining a chamber wall. The lube wad also wets and wipes off any powder lining the chamber wall.

I suspect that the greater probability for chainfire comes from flame entering under a lose fitting cap. After adding a cap to a nipple, I always push a tight fitting cap on tighter with a wood dowel. IMO pinching a lose fitting cap is asking for chainfires. I have found that #10 Remington and CCI caps fit all my revolvers, even Uberti's that spec #11 caps.

Bottom line is that I don't have any idea on the reported reasons for published chainfires. However, since I have never ever had a chainfire, I will continue using my loading practice.

That's my conjecture and I'm sticking to it.  L@J L@J L@J

Regards,
Richard
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Offline G Dog

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Re: Revolver "Chain Fires"
« Reply #16 on: June 12, 2019, 10:53:05 AM »
Expanding hot gas, energy, fire and debris is at the face of the cylinder, we know that. The immediate chamber face to the left of ignition is wearing that shot like a hat and getting exposed right in the face.  On the other hand I donít see the flame wrapping around and melting caps or behaving with enough energy to get under a fitted cap and down the flash channel. Weíd all know way too well if that happened much.  Sure, anything can happen but in the normal course of events usually doesn't.

Friend GeoJohn Fuhring definitely comes with some idiosyncrasies.  Sometimes I donít know quite what to make of him. In addition to cleaning with just olive oil or jojoba whatever he also talks about curing the bore as if it were a cast iron skillet.  Heís certainly thought provoking though, Iíll give him that.

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Offline Necessaryevil

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Re: Revolver "Chain Fires"
« Reply #17 on: June 12, 2019, 02:53:32 PM »
G Dog.

Olive oil for cleaning and lube. Yes there is merit to that. I bought a cooking spray of olive oil here in Spain from a local supermarket chain. When sprayed over the gun immediately after finishing shooting at the range an external wipedown with a cloth takes off all the fouling on the outside of the gun. I also spray it into the chambers, over the hammer and into the action. It really does make the fouling soft and easy to clean at home.

Offline G Dog

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Re: Revolver "Chain Fires"
« Reply #18 on: June 12, 2019, 04:09:16 PM »
Hi Necessary  -  I didnít mean to disparage the use of olive oil although it may have sounded as if I did.  Actually I use it all the time.  I carry a little dropper bottle of it in my kit for hiking or in the bag at the range.  Sometime the cylinder pin on my Remington's get stuck after extensive shooting.  Iíll put two or three drops on the pin at the cylinder face and tip it muzzle up to let gravity help and after a minute or so the pin pulls right out.  I use it on Coltís too when the cylinder rotation starts to get a little heavy.  I use a drop or two over ball sometimes too for sealing chambers.  Good stuff.

We have a product here called PAM that seems similar to what you mention, itís a veg pan spray for cooking.  Several of the gents here use it.  Itís canola oil, mostly. Iíve only used it once but it seems just the thing for an after shooting / pre cleaning spray down treatment.
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Offline Hawg

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Re: Revolver "Chain Fires"
« Reply #19 on: June 12, 2019, 06:31:17 PM »
I never used olive oil for cleaning but I lube patches with it and use it in bullet lube. It's good stuff and has been used for centuries. If a cylinder gets gummy you can spray a little Windex on the pin and free it right up but it's not exactly historically correct. *6'
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and tasteth good with ketchup.

Offline G Dog

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Re: Revolver "Chain Fires"
« Reply #20 on: June 12, 2019, 08:43:19 PM »
Did Sam Colt & Co. ever talk about shaving a lead ring?  With chamfered chambers I would expect not.

Would it be legit to assume that the (rare) incidents of cross-fires we hear of or witness occur mainly on reproductions that have no bevel on the chamber faces?
« Last Edit: June 12, 2019, 09:01:50 PM by G Dog »
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Offline Captainkirk

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Re: Revolver "Chain Fires"
« Reply #21 on: June 13, 2019, 05:46:28 AM »
I have both experienced and witnessed chainfire on a Lyman Navy Colt that a friend owns...it was horrendous and repeatable. So much, in fact, that he doesn't shoot the gun any more. I watched once as he had all six go off at once. Impressive, but scary.
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Offline Necessaryevil

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Re: Revolver "Chain Fires"
« Reply #22 on: June 13, 2019, 08:12:16 AM »
Hi Necessary  -  I didnít mean to disparage the use of olive oil although it may have sounded as if I did.  Actually I use it all the time.  I carry a little dropper bottle of it in my kit for hiking or in the bag at the range.  Sometime the cylinder pin on my Remington's get stuck after extensive shooting.  Iíll put two or three drops on the pin at the cylinder face and tip it muzzle up to let gravity help and after a minute or so the pin pulls right out.  I use it on Coltís too when the cylinder rotation starts to get a little heavy.  I use a drop or two over ball sometimes too for sealing chambers.  Good stuff.

We have a product here called PAM that seems similar to what you mention, itís a veg pan spray for cooking.  Several of the gents here use it.  Itís canola oil, mostly. Iíve only used it once but it seems just the thing for an after shooting / pre cleaning spray down treatment.

A DROPPER bottle.....................What an excellent idea, why didn't I think of that  ???

I get litres of Olive oil given to me for free. A friend of mine harvests his olive trees and sends them to the local mill. Great for cooking and salads too !

Offline Hawg

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Re: Revolver "Chain Fires"
« Reply #23 on: June 13, 2019, 08:17:36 AM »
I have both experienced and witnessed chainfire on a Lyman Navy Colt that a friend owns...it was horrendous and repeatable. So much, in fact, that he doesn't shoot the gun any more. I watched once as he had all six go off at once. Impressive, but scary.

No reason for them to be scary. The ones without bore pressure don't have much power. They just go a few yards and drop.
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and tasteth good with ketchup.

Offline Captainkirk

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Re: Revolver "Chain Fires"
« Reply #24 on: June 13, 2019, 09:07:53 AM »
I have both experienced and witnessed chainfire on a Lyman Navy Colt that a friend owns...it was horrendous and repeatable. So much, in fact, that he doesn't shoot the gun any more. I watched once as he had all six go off at once. Impressive, but scary.

No reason for them to be scary. The ones without bore pressure don't have much power. They just go a few yards and drop.

Except for the six o'clock round. It splatters all over the frame. Ask me how I know.
"You gonna pull those pistols, or whistle Dixie?"

Offline ssb73q

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Re: Revolver "Chain Fires"
« Reply #25 on: June 13, 2019, 10:40:10 AM »
Hi Hawg, tests have shown that balls come out of a cylinder at ~300fps. That's enough to remove a finger if hit. It also puts excessive stress on a revolver frame.

Chainfires are to be avoided.

Regards,
Richard
Thereís nothing better in the morning than the smell of bacon and black powder smoke!

Offline Hawg

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Re: Revolver "Chain Fires"
« Reply #26 on: June 13, 2019, 01:00:41 PM »
Except for the six o'clock round. It splatters all over the frame. Ask me how I know.

It leaves a lead smear but it doesn't have enough force to splatter.


Hi Hawg, tests have shown that balls come out of a cylinder at ~300fps. That's enough to remove a finger if hit. It also puts excessive stress on a revolver frame.

Chainfires are to be avoided.

Regards,
Richard

Yeah if you had your finger in front of it. I've got an old Remington that's had more chain fires than I can remember but they never hurt anything. Most chains with it included all six rounds. It may be different with a Colt, I never had one with a Colt.
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and tasteth good with ketchup.

Offline Captainkirk

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Re: Revolver "Chain Fires"
« Reply #27 on: June 13, 2019, 01:19:14 PM »

Except for the six o'clock round. It splatters all over the frame. Ask me how I know.

It leaves a lead smear but it doesn't have enough force to splatter.

Well, OK...a little hyperbole there maybe. But it ends up in multiple chunks of lead...aka splatter.
"You gonna pull those pistols, or whistle Dixie?"