Author Topic: Ordered a new Uberti 1849 Pocket  (Read 15833 times)

Offline ssb73q

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Re: Ordered a new Uberti 1849 Pocket
« Reply #30 on: December 09, 2013, 05:25:39 AM »
Hi, I cast pure lead 0.33" (00-buck) for my .31 Uberti 1849 Pocket, but they are not as round and uniform as the Hornady 00-Buck (0.33") that I bought. The problem with the Hornady ball is that antimony is added as a hardener. That little lever on the 1849 isn't long enough to provide enough force to load those hard 00-buck. I made some jags for my Tower of Powder (Biglube) loading tool. See:



and



That loader should supply enough force to seat 0.33" brass balls in the 0.321" cylinder chamber. LOL I should now be able to use the Hornady 00-buck in the 1849.

Regards,
Richard
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Offline ssb73q

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Re: Ordered a new Uberti 1849 Pocket
« Reply #31 on: December 09, 2013, 08:25:09 AM »
Hi, well I shot the 1849 today. It was an adventure. Snowing and cold didn't help working through a series of issues. I used ~15gr (by volume) of Black MZ in 4 chambers. The loading lever wouldn't even begin to seat the soft lead 0.33" balls. I needed to use the Tower of Power loading tool. I loaded in 2 soft lead 0.33 balls, then 2 of the Hornady 00-buck (antimony hardened 0.33" ball). The balls were overball lubed using a 50/50 beeswax/olive oil mix. The olive oil used was extra virgin, perfect for an unused revolver? I installed the cylinder in the revolver and then tried to add #10 caps on the nipple. #10 caps wouldn't begin to seat deep enough to allow turning the cylinder in the frame. I then found some #11 caps I had and that did the trick, they fit perfectly. I shot steel from ~50ft and without any particular aiming attention did a ~4" group, ~10" high. I had a cap jam (cap parts falling between the hammer and frame) after my 3rd and 4th shot.

I never would have believed that such a little pipsqueak revolver would be so much trouble.

Now on to do some .32 S&W loaded for the conversion cylinder.

Regards,
Richard
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Offline ssb73q

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Re: Ordered a new Uberti 1849 Pocket
« Reply #32 on: December 09, 2013, 12:41:10 PM »
Ya, you need the smaller shanked wrench for your 1849. Track of the Wolf has them.

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/65/1/NW-130

Hi scooby, thank you, I ordered two of them. Since I always remove the nipples for cleaning after shooting, Ballistol works just fine. I bought a can of anti-seize compound, but don't use it because the stuff gets on everything everywhere and makes a mess.

Again, thanks for the info on the nipple wrench.

Regards,
Richard

Hi scooby, I received the Track of the Wolf nipple wrenches you identified, they work perfectly. The nipple wrench tip is thin and thank goodness that Brunhilda the Hun that uses a 100 ft-lb torque wrench didn't install them. Maybe they hired Pietta's Tiny Tina to install the nipples?

The only issue I have for the nipples that are on the Uberti 1849 Pocket is that they use #11 caps. #10 won't go on far enough and lock up the cylinder to the revolver frame. I determined that the threads of the nipples are 12-28. I wonder if I can get 12-28 nipples that are the same length as the originals, but can take #10 caps?

Thank you for solving my nipple removal issue for me.

Regards,
Richard
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Offline ofitg

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Re: Ordered a new Uberti 1849 Pocket
« Reply #33 on: December 09, 2013, 05:01:33 PM »
I had a cap jam (cap parts falling between the hammer and frame) after my 3rd and 4th shot.


Richard, have you tried those "cap keepers"?  (short lengths of 1/4" OD plastic tubing)

I'd be interested in hearing whether those solve your cap jams in the Colt design.

I'm also looking forward to hearing your report on the conversion cylinder..... that .332 groove diameter could be a challenge!

Offline Captainkirk

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Re: Ordered a new Uberti 1849 Pocket
« Reply #34 on: December 09, 2013, 09:00:12 PM »
I never would have believed that such a little pipsqueak revolver would be so much trouble.

I prolly coulda told ya if'n ya woulda asked..... ;)
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Offline ssb73q

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Re: Ordered a new Uberti 1849 Pocket
« Reply #35 on: December 10, 2013, 04:54:09 AM »
I had a cap jam (cap parts falling between the hammer and frame) after my 3rd and 4th shot.


Richard, have you tried those "cap keepers"?  (short lengths of 1/4" OD plastic tubing)

I'd be interested in hearing whether those solve your cap jams in the Colt design.

I'm also looking forward to hearing your report on the conversion cylinder..... that .332 groove diameter could be a challenge!

Hi Steve, I bought three bags of those eBay cap keepers last year, but never used them. I gave one package to my neighbor that keeps his 1858 in a state of perpetual loaded condition and he used the cap keepers to keep moisture out, but he hasn't shot the revolver with those cap keepers on.

Loading the .32 S&W Short in the Taylor conversion cylinder has its own issues. The Laser Cast 78g RN .313 bullets measure 0.3135" diameter, the conversion cylinder chamber exits measures 0.3125-0.3130". The bullet will need to swage down before entering the forcing cone. While concerning, it may be a good thing to raise pressure before the bullet exits the conversion cylinder. Barrel lands of 0.310 only give ~0.003" lead to hold in the rifling. The groves being .332 give a lot of room for gas blow by.

I have a theory that having excess rifling space for fouling is a good thing for powders that have heavy fouling, like black powder. However, using smokeless with the conversion cylinder and large groove space may just have the effect of reducing velocity and ruining accuracy. Maybe a wad behind the bullet would help. The only problem with that is that the .32 S&W Short case is already powder limited.

Regards,
Richard 
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Offline ssb73q

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Re: Ordered a new Uberti 1849 Pocket
« Reply #36 on: December 10, 2013, 10:11:07 AM »
I had a cap jam (cap parts falling between the hammer and frame) after my 3rd and 4th shot.


Richard, have you tried those "cap keepers"?  (short lengths of 1/4" OD plastic tubing)

I'd be interested in hearing whether those solve your cap jams in the Colt design.

I'm also looking forward to hearing your report on the conversion cylinder..... that .332 groove diameter could be a challenge!

Hi Steve, today I ordered Slix-Shot nipples for the Uberti 1849 Pocket. The Slix-Shot nipples have a small hole in the side of the nipple that is supposed to minimize cap fragments, see:
http://cowboygunparts.com/cap-&-ball-nipples.html

What's also nice is that they take #10 caps while the Uberti installed nipples are for #11 caps. They come in a six-pack so I will have one spare nipple if needed.

Of interest:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hns_tEWBFD0

Regards,
Richard
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Offline ofitg

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Re: Ordered a new Uberti 1849 Pocket
« Reply #37 on: December 10, 2013, 11:15:45 AM »
Let us know what happens.....

If the cylinder mouths measure .313, it seems clear that a heeled bullet would not help.

Another popular option for mating up conversion cylinders with C&B barrels is the hollow-based slug.
 

Offline ssb73q

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Re: Ordered a new Uberti 1849 Pocket
« Reply #38 on: December 10, 2013, 12:55:58 PM »
Hi Steve, I have the Lee 32 S&W Short die set, but that bullet seating die also does the crimp. For the life of me, I can't see how one could accurately seat a bullet and then crimp it in one operation. There is no available factory crimp die for the .32 S&W Short so I will try a workaround using a Lee .32 ACP die set for crimping. I'm not holding my breath.

BTW, I got my Lee auto power measure today. Tomorrow I will begin loading .32 S&W Short with Trail Boss power and Laser Cast bullets minus the crimp.

Regards,
Richard
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Offline Kaboom

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Re: Ordered a new Uberti 1849 Pocket
« Reply #39 on: December 10, 2013, 02:08:32 PM »
Hi Steve, I have the Lee 32 S&W Short die set, but that bullet seating die also does the crimp. For the life of me, I can't see how one could accurately seat a bullet and then crimp it in one operation. There is no available factory crimp die for the .32 S&W Short so I will try a workaround using a Lee .32 ACP die set for crimping. I'm not holding my breath.

BTW, I got my Lee auto power measure today. Tomorrow I will begin loading .32 S&W Short with Trail Boss power and Laser Cast bullets minus the crimp.

Regards,
Richard

The seating and crimp die does a good job on rimed cases. The last few thou of movement does the crimping, but you must have a crimp groove for it to work. The ACP die will not work as all it does is put a taper crimp on, since the ACP headspaces on the case mouth. For the rimmed case you need a rolled crimp. I  have been using both roll crimps and taper crimps for maybe 40 years. The 3 die set is fine for the 32 short.
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Offline ssb73q

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Re: Ordered a new Uberti 1849 Pocket
« Reply #40 on: December 10, 2013, 04:09:04 PM »
Hi Steve, I have the Lee 32 S&W Short die set, but that bullet seating die also does the crimp. For the life of me, I can't see how one could accurately seat a bullet and then crimp it in one operation. There is no available factory crimp die for the .32 S&W Short so I will try a workaround using a Lee .32 ACP die set for crimping. I'm not holding my breath.

BTW, I got my Lee auto power measure today. Tomorrow I will begin loading .32 S&W Short with Trail Boss power and Laser Cast bullets minus the crimp.

Regards,
Richard

The seating and crimp die does a good job on rimed cases. The last few thou of movement does the crimping, but you must have a crimp groove for it to work. The ACP die will not work as all it does is put a taper crimp on, since the ACP headspaces on the case mouth. For the rimmed case you need a rolled crimp. I  have been using both roll crimps and taper crimps for maybe 40 years. The 3 die set is fine for the 32 short.

Hi Kaboom, of course you are correct about using the .32 APC die for crimping. I wasn't too clear on what I intended. What I was thinking about was using the APC die for bullet seating and then using the .32 seating/crimp die just for crimping. I bought the Lee .32 S&W Long factory crimp die thinking it could be modified for use with the .32 S&W Short, but found that I would need to use an abrasive cutoff saw to remove ~0.25" off the bottom of that die for it to work. I don't have an abrasive cutoff saw so the APC die set will be my near term workaround.

Regards,
Richard
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Offline ssb73q

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Re: Ordered a new Uberti 1849 Pocket
« Reply #41 on: December 10, 2013, 04:32:59 PM »
Hi, after a lot of monkey motions trying to find appropriate sized balls for the 1849 Pocket, I saw that Track of the Wolf has 0.323" soft lead balls for sale, see:
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/127/1/BALL-323-X

Other than using the Tower of Powder loading tool, there wasn't any way that 0.330" balls, soft lead or hard, could be loaded into the Pocket with its short loading lever. The 0.323 balls are just 0.001-0.002" larger than the cylinder chambers size and should load easily using the 1849 loading lever. Track of the Wolf also sells power flask nozzles of different throw weights. I had bought a couple of 15gr and 20gr nozzles and cut one of the 15gr nozzles off that will now throw 12gr (by volume) powder. IMO 12gr will leave enough space to use a lubed wad between ball and powder for the 1849 revolver. 

Regards,
Richard

 
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Offline ssb73q

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Re: Ordered a new Uberti 1849 Pocket
« Reply #42 on: December 11, 2013, 09:52:33 AM »
Hi, using my Lee turret press and Lee .32 S&W Short dies I loaded up 100 .32 S&W using 32 Cal. 78g RN .313 Laser Cast bullets with 1.5gr of  Trail Boss powder. After seating all the bullets to the correct depth with the Lee bullet seating/crimp die I backed out the bullet seating part of that die and reset the crimp part to a good crimp depth. All the seated cartridges were then crimped.

It's too bad we are currently in a heavy snow storm, I can't wait to test out this loading with the Taylor .32 S&W conversion cylinder in my new Uberti 1849 Pocket revolver.  :'( :'( :'(

Regards,
Richard
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Offline ssb73q

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Re: Ordered a new Uberti 1849 Pocket
« Reply #43 on: December 11, 2013, 10:20:01 AM »
Hi, when I had the Uberti 1849 Pocket apart, I compared the hammer spring to the Wolff 32285 reduced power spring that I use in all my 1858 Remingtons and one 1860 Army that is used with conversion cylinders. From the spring hole, the Wolff spring is the same length and width as the Uberti 1849. It's only the length of the spring hole to the bottom of the Wolff spring that is an issue. That lower length is too long to fit in the 1849. However, I think that the over long portion could be ground shorter. I ordered a couple of Wolff 32285 springs to give this a try. I'll report back on the results of this experiment.

Regards,
Richard
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Offline StrawHat

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Re: Ordered a new Uberti 1849 Pocket
« Reply #44 on: December 11, 2013, 12:03:56 PM »
A reduced mainspring is okay with cartridges BUT it can promote capp problems when used with a C&B revolver. 

Also, a cartridge like the 32 S&W is very mild in recoil.  I can not see you needing much, if any crimp to keep bullets in place.  I usually rely on the case neck tension to keep bullets in place for much of my shooting.  The neck expander in my dies is .001" under bullet diameter.  Just another option for you.
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