photo Dragoon-Navyset_zps3txqpebh.jpg

Author Topic: 38 Colt conversion cylinder for 1851  (Read 7117 times)

Offline Captainkirk

  • Administrator Extraordinaire and Part-Time Gunslinger
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3517
  • "Nothing like a nice piece of hickory"
    • View Profile
Re: 38 Colt conversion cylinder for 1851
« Reply #45 on: February 25, 2016, 10:13:27 AM »
Hi Mike, these guys are a pretty good bunch. They could have suggested hanging?  (jh (jh (jh

Regards,
Richard

I did request a hanging, for the Captain if I recall correctly.  Something about he owns a Remington or some such.

Kevin

IIRC, my sentence was commuted due to owning 6 Remmies. I was deemed insane.
"You gonna pull those pistols, or whistle Dixie?"

Offline StrawHat

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1238
    • View Profile
Re: 38 Colt conversion cylinder for 1851
« Reply #46 on: February 25, 2016, 07:01:13 PM »
Hi Mike, these guys are a pretty good bunch. They could have suggested hanging?  (jh (jh (jh

Regards,
Richard

I did request a hanging, for the Captain if I recall correctly.  Something about he owns a Remington or some such.

Kevin

IIRC, my sentence was commuted due to owning 6 Remmies. I was deemed insane.

Your being insane has nothing to do with what you own.  And it is only a stay of execution, I am still looking for 5 more ropes!

Kevin
Knowledge carried to the grave unshared, is wasted.

www.NoonSharpening.com

Offline 45 Dragoon

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 361
  • Newbie
    • View Profile
Re: 38 Colt conversion cylinder for 1851
« Reply #47 on: February 25, 2016, 07:07:58 PM »
 (7+"

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks

Offline ssb73q

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1636
  • Gunsmoke junkie
    • View Profile
Re: 38 Colt conversion cylinder for 1851
« Reply #48 on: February 26, 2016, 04:25:08 AM »
Hi, while I'm mostly happy with the Howell conversion cylinders, there is one aspect of the Howell (and Taylor) that I dislike. The cylinder bolt slot is always cut much wider than necessary. This was first noticed with the 1858 conversions, and continues in the Colts. The cylinder bolt slot is cut ~0.010" wider than the bolt. That means that there is cylinder wobble ~0.005" either side of the bore axis. The forcing cone of course will handle that misalignment, but a wide slot doesn't contribute to good accuracy. Good accuracy shouldn't be secondary to Howell not having any returns or complaints.

The wide slot is a purposeful design, it fits in all guns irrespective of bolt width variance. Frankly, it sucks! I would much prefer a tight cylinder bolt slot, even if a adjustment of the bolt is required to fit the cylinder.

Regards,
Richard
There’s nothing better in the morning than the smell of bacon and black powder smoke!

Offline 45 Dragoon

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 361
  • Newbie
    • View Profile
Re: 38 Colt conversion cylinder for 1851
« Reply #49 on: February 26, 2016, 05:06:49 AM »
That's a lot.
Must be something Taylor's changed for a CYA scenario?
My 6 shot R&D cylinder in my Remie (P) locks up tight. Don't know how old it is, bought it from an individual in new condition (the cyl and the individual!! (7+"). It had no safety notch/notches in it (if that signals a time frame) so I cut a safety notch in it. It's a great shooter!!

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks
« Last Edit: February 26, 2016, 05:08:21 AM by 45 Dragoon »

Offline ssb73q

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1636
  • Gunsmoke junkie
    • View Profile
Re: 38 Colt conversion cylinder for 1851
« Reply #50 on: February 26, 2016, 09:41:21 AM »
Hi Mike, I ordered an Uberti 1851 replacement bolt. I will see if the new bolt is wider than what's in my Uberti 1851. I suspect that there will be no difference, but it's worth a try.

The Uberti 1858 that I bought this last year has a radius on the bolt width edges that allows it to work even in undersized cylinder bolt slots. I suspect that Uberti doing this is to minimize bolt slot fitting issues?

Regards,
Richard
There’s nothing better in the morning than the smell of bacon and black powder smoke!

Offline 45 Dragoon

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 361
  • Newbie
    • View Profile
Re: 38 Colt conversion cylinder for 1851
« Reply #51 on: February 26, 2016, 07:37:00 PM »
Richard,
 That's called "taper fitting" and it is very wrong. The sides of the bolt should be 90° from the frame/locking notches. Tapered sides are ramps. Tapered sides are an easy way to quickly " fit" a bolt on the production line so, you are correct with your suspicion.
 The condition of the bolt dictates the condition of the locking notches.

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks

Offline ssb73q

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1636
  • Gunsmoke junkie
    • View Profile
Re: 38 Colt conversion cylinder for 1851
« Reply #52 on: February 28, 2016, 01:38:26 PM »
Hi, damn, nothing is ever simple. Today the temperature climbed up to 60 degrees and I thought I would shoot my new used engraved Uberti 1851 with the Howell 38 Colt/38 Special conversion cylinder using 38 Special hbwc. Right after loading the cylinder to the revolver I noticed that the cylinder would bind in the gun. What I found out was that one of the firing pins was too long. Howell must have gotten the wrong pin installed in the cylinder. Fortunately, I had some spare firing pin where I could install the correct length pin. While the 1851 shoots high, the revolver preformed flawlessly.

Those Howell people better wake up!!

Regards,
Richard 
There’s nothing better in the morning than the smell of bacon and black powder smoke!

Offline ssb73q

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1636
  • Gunsmoke junkie
    • View Profile
Re: 38 Colt conversion cylinder for 1851
« Reply #53 on: February 29, 2016, 12:06:38 PM »
Hi Mike, I ordered an Uberti 1851 replacement bolt. I will see if the new bolt is wider than what's in my Uberti 1851. I suspect that there will be no difference, but it's worth a try.

The Uberti 1858 that I bought this last year has a radius on the bolt width edges that allows it to work even in undersized cylinder bolt slots. I suspect that Uberti doing this is to minimize bolt slot fitting issues?

Regards,
Richard

Hi, the new Uberti 1851 bolt arrived today. It is 0.007" wider than the bolt in the engraved Uberti 1851. It is a perfect fit in the frame opening by <0.0005" and fits perfectly in the Howell Uberti 38 Colt/38 Special conversion cylinder. This bolt is too wide for the C&B cylinder that was in the engraved 1851, but since I will pretty much exclusively use the engraved 1851 with the conversion cylinder, it stays in the revolver. If I ever decide to use the C&B cylinder I can reinstall the old bolt.

It will be interesting to learn what size the bolt slot width of the new Uberti C&B cylinder I ordered from Dixie. I will report back what I learn.

Regards,
Richard
There’s nothing better in the morning than the smell of bacon and black powder smoke!

Offline Major

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 54
  • Newbie
    • View Profile
Re: 38 Colt conversion cylinder for 1851
« Reply #54 on: February 29, 2016, 01:26:32 PM »
I'm following this thread, with interest
I've had a Howell Conversion in my Second Gen. 1860 going on 11 years now.... Bolt lock up is vault like with no play ,
The OEM Cyl (C&B) has more.
I did have to have hand minutely fitted to the Howell as I recall.
I bought this gun in 1978 NIB and carried it over 30 years as a mounted Cavalry reenator....

I bought the Howell Cyl. in 05
from a guy who had fitted it to his Ubreti but never fired it.
 

Offline ssb73q

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1636
  • Gunsmoke junkie
    • View Profile
Re: 38 Colt conversion cylinder for 1851
« Reply #55 on: March 03, 2016, 11:57:37 AM »
Hi, the new Uberti 1851 cylinder I ordered from Dixie just came in the door. A few measurements shows that the cylinder bolt slots are perfect for the new replacement bolt, 0.155". The lockup is tighter than a 16yr old virgin. The cylinder dropped right into the engraved Uberti 1851 with zero issues. The barrel/cylinder gap is 0.003" that is quite acceptable. The engraving on the cylinder and bluing is very nice. It's good to now have both conversion cylinder and C&B cylinder that works perfectly in my new used Uberti 1851.

 :) :) :)

Regards,
Richard
« Last Edit: March 04, 2016, 04:29:08 AM by ssb73q »
There’s nothing better in the morning than the smell of bacon and black powder smoke!

Offline Major

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 54
  • Newbie
    • View Profile
Re: 38 Colt conversion cylinder for 1851
« Reply #56 on: March 04, 2016, 02:44:50 AM »
Hi, the new Uberti 1858 cylinder I ordered from Dixie just came in the door. A few measurements shows that the cylinder bolt slots are perfect for the new replacement bolt, 0.155". The lockup is tighter than a 16yr old virgin. The cylinder dropped right into the engraved Uberti 1851 with zero issues. The barrel/cylinder gap is 0.003" that is quite acceptable. The engraving on the cylinder and bluing is very nice. It's good to now have both conversion cylinder and C&B cylinder that works perfectly in my new used Uberti 1851.

 :) :) :)

I'm confused ... 1858 Cyl. ?  1851 ?  or are saying you have both a Remy & the Navy  ???

Regards,
Richard

Offline ssb73q

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1636
  • Gunsmoke junkie
    • View Profile
Re: 38 Colt conversion cylinder for 1851
« Reply #57 on: March 04, 2016, 04:39:32 AM »
Hi Major, the 1858 was a typo, I edited the post to fix it. While I have a number of Colts, I do however own a number of 1858s of different configuration. All those revolvers also use conversion cylinders. I have many extra C&B cylinders for the Remmies and use them often. Since the Colts tend to be cap suckers, I use my Colts more with the conversion cylinders.

Regards,
Richard
There’s nothing better in the morning than the smell of bacon and black powder smoke!

Offline Major

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 54
  • Newbie
    • View Profile
Re: 38 Colt conversion cylinder for 1851
« Reply #58 on: March 05, 2016, 06:44:57 AM »
I've had Remy's off and on ...the only one I have at present is Uberti Forged frame conversion, and that was an
GUN Magazine review test piece.
I liked it well enough to hang on to it but Remy's don't float my boat as COLTS do.
The other's traded or sold off...
 

Offline BartSr

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 29
  • UnderHammers
    • View Profile
    • Love of Muzzle Loaders
Re: 38 Colt conversion cylinder for 1851
« Reply #59 on: May 02, 2016, 08:53:54 PM »
I'm game.  I have that DGG/Spesco monster in .36 cal.  I have a pile of 38 special brass (pounds of it).  Would love to use this brass in/on/with this "revolver".  I noticed mention of heeled bullets.  I imagine that they are like .22 LR bullets that are the same diameter as the OD of the brass and not like regular 38 special that fit all inside of the brass.  Sounds wonderful.

What is the difference between 38 special and 38 long colt?
Diameter?  Length?

Drooling,

P.S. I slid a .38 special bullet down that barrel, not tight.  Tried to fit a .38 special brass into the barrel muzzle to check for size, no fitting.  Maybe heeled bullets will work here.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2016, 10:47:17 AM by BartSr »
BartSr
NMLRA, NRA EPL, MuzzleLoader Mag.