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Mojave Desert Marksmen Rondy was a good time, resting up and practicing for next year
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Author Topic: Traditional Muzzleloading Rifles/Muskets and your Loads/Procedures  (Read 4449 times)
Smokin_Gun
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« on: December 22, 2010, 11:46:PM »

I thought this would be a good topic to exchange ideas and methods of achieving the most accurate loads for your Traditional Muzzleloading Rifles. Also problems you have had with your ML Rifles or Muskets...
Discuss this any way you like  ... I'm gonna include patch inspection along with patching materials, pure lead balls, Black Powder or Subs loads and the likes, gear ect. ... Percussion and Flintlocks both can be discussed in this subject.
 wabbit hunter
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Fuzzy
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Posts: 956


« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2010, 06:23:AM »

With all the BP revolvers I've ever owned, I have never had a muzzleloader long rifle.
I did have an original wall-hanger once, but that was it.
I only shot a 50 cal at a range one time, when a friend let me shoot it one time.

Perhaps the next life...
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Smokin_Gun
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« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2010, 01:02:PM »

Stop on by we'll go see how you like a long gun  cool1 yes dance wabbit hunter
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Smokin_Gun
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« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2010, 09:58:AM »

I'll just mention this and hope this topic rolls on ... a good indication of an acurate load reachin' it's maximum charge would be taken a look at each patch after each shot ... a too hot of a charge will look blac as it is about to burn thru... so that would be your max charge ... a brown one if accurate to about 100 yards would be a good workin' load. Any that burn thru the patch or tear means too much powder and probly a not too accurate shot but would still do it's job. A torn patch means that too much powder stripped the patched ball in the rifling not allowing the rifling to catch the patched ball and spin it properiy causin' an in accurate shot.
That's my $.02 for this mornin'.


Catch up with ya's later... dance
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Smokin_Gun
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« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2010, 06:02:PM »

I got a Hawken in me stockin' and I'm a achin' ta shoot it. Won't be long and I'm gonna get this beauty out there in the Desert or the Mountains and look for it's sweet spot... Hopefully it'll be with a hole in a Jack rabbit's head  Wink yes
« Last Edit: January 01, 2011, 10:09:PM by Smokin_Gun » Logged
StrawHat
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Posts: 274


« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2010, 01:58:PM »

I'll just mention this and hope this topic rolls on ... a good indication of an acurate load reachin' it's maximum charge would be taken a look at each patch after each shot ... a too hot of a charge will look black as it is about to burn thru... so that would be your max charge ... a brown one if accurate to about 100 yards would be a good workin' load. Any that burn thru the patch or tear means too much powder and probly a not too accurate shot but would still do it's job. A torn patch means that too much powder stripped the patched ball in the rifling not allowing the rifling to catch the patched ball and spin it properiy causin' an in accurate shot.
That's my $.02 for this mornin'.


Catch up with ya's later... dance

A torn patch can also indicate the rifling is very sharp.  Or the ball and patch combination is too tight for the bore.

Black patches can be prevented by using a wad between the powder charge and the patched round ball.  In the past I have used the nest of a paper wasp (those big football shaped nests that hang in the trees).  I harvest them after the first frost when the wasps have died or otherwise departed.  I have also heard of using newsprint or another patch as wadding but the nest has served me well enough.

Another trick to use when developing a load is to use a ball small enough to require a double patch.  Then when the bore is fouled enough to make the load tough to shove down the bore just use one patch.  I read about this in one of the Muzzle Blast issues back in the 60s or 70s.  I have never tried it as when hunting I don't shoot that many times and when practicing, I have time to swab.  

Wish I still had the pile of Muzzle Blast magazines.  Lots of good information in there from fellows who learned it back before it was all forgotten and had to be relearned.  A lto of those fellows talked about "calibers of twist" rather than inches of twist.  The idea was to divide the distance it took for one revolution by the size of the bore.  Simplified, if it turned once in 48" and was 50 caliber, the twist according to them was one turn in 96 calibers.  A 48" twist in a 58 would be an 82 twist but a 48" twist in a 32 was a 150 twist.  The higher numbered twist could accomondate more powder than the lower numbers.  I forget where the break between target and hunting twist was but it was a hotly debated point back then.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2011, 10:10:PM by Smokin_Gun » Logged

Knowledge should be shared, not hoarded.

Knowledge I take to my grave, is wasted.

I prefer to use cartridges designed before my Father was born!
Smokin_Gun
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« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2011, 10:35:PM »

A good read Strawhat...Back East we had access to them big old 2-3 foot long or smaller nest, tah also told us how bad a winter we'd be have depending on how high the nests were built. The higer thre nesrt the deeper the snow would be.( a lil' trivia)
Anyway... I liked Muzzleblast on, but I was subscribed to Muzzloader of which I still have a stack of the the white protectivve mailing covers. I learned alot for m the Old Masters that posted or wrote the articals back then.
I've hadn't heard that about the faster twist bein' able to support more powder as in a 1-48" vs a 1-66" twist. But I did have a T/C Hawken .50cal w/ 28" bbl i think that was 1 in 48" and it would burn beyond 70gr of ffg or ffg Black Powder. And for accuracy and speed of loading I went to store bought pillow tickin' for patchin' and Mooses Milk for lube. My Other Rifle that I turned to was a Miroku Tennessee Poorboy in .50 with a 41 1/2" bbl.
I had done extensive testing with patches and loads when shootin' Metalic Silhoutte Competition. I learned alot from the old Masters there at Club. I'll have to ry that comparison again only with the  Miroku Poorboy and my new to me CVA Friontier 24" Hawken .50 and see twhich one take the hotter load without burnin' thru ... Thanks you gave me something to do with myself StrawHat  Wink laugh dance
I think another variable is the Barrel's length to concider along with the twist rate and caliber...
Dang I'll also have to see what the Harpers Ferry .58 with it's long ass barrel does ... I would pull out the Zouave as I never finnised the first pack of 100ea I bought back in 70's for it ... I got the Lee Minie Ball Mold I never looked back  Smiley
Good reply StrawHat you got me thinkin'...  toast
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StrawHat
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Posts: 274


« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2011, 05:34:AM »

...I've hadn't heard that about the faster twist bein' able to support more powder as in a 1-48" vs a 1-66" twist. ...

Sorry if I mislead you, it is the other way around.  A slower twist will handle a larger powder charge.  A 1/66" twist is slower than a 1/22 or 1/48.  I am wanting to build a 45 or 50 caliber rifle with a 120 or longer twist.  Practically a straight bored rifle.  A true express rifle, it should take a lot of powder.  To what purpose, I am not sure as I still don't like to make long hunting shots.
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Knowledge should be shared, not hoarded.

Knowledge I take to my grave, is wasted.

I prefer to use cartridges designed before my Father was born!
Smokin_Gun
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« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2011, 02:59:PM »

Thanks for that Strawhat as I learned it just the opposite of what you said before 30 years ago... but there is still a sweet spot that needs to be found and I use no more than one patch type for all my rifles ... I'm a Traditional Muzzleloader Shootist and only do it the way it used to be done. One patch, one ball and 60-70gr of real Black Powder is all I need ... I know my limitations of all my guns. And have no problem with droppin' a Deer at 100 yards or 20/lb metalic Silhoutte Rams at 100 yards either. That Remington Zouave gets out there real easy to 300 yards with a minie ball of 500gr and 60gr of ffg Black Powder and still does alot of damage.
For me heavy loads for long distances don't exist ... the Long Range shootin' may be the differance detween the loads you like and the loads I like, seein' you said you don't like makin' long range hunting shots. Closer in they be more accurate I venture to say.
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StrawHat
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Posts: 274


« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2011, 04:58:AM »

I have yet to take a hunting shot beyond 100 yards, preferring to stalk much closer.  Not so much more accurate, just what I do.  I also don't like to trail game after the shot, but that is just me.

As to long range shooting, rocks and such are fair game as long as I can see them.  Same with 5 gallon pails, paint cans, etc.  Not that any 40+ caliber rifle will be a varmit rifle, the long twists and heavy loads tend to flatten the trajectory and make range guessing a little easier.
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Knowledge should be shared, not hoarded.

Knowledge I take to my grave, is wasted.

I prefer to use cartridges designed before my Father was born!
Smokin_Gun
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« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2011, 11:34:PM »

I don't like trailing game far or try to find them in the Mojave in any time of year ... or back East either that's why I count on my own skills that my Dad had shown me and  my Uncle Sam honed me on, and drop a Buck with a shot right behind the ear ... be it with a .222 Remington or a .50 cal round ball at a 100 yards or a bit more... that's jus' me... dance yes boom drink

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Smokin_Gun
Guest
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2011, 11:20:PM »

I thought there'd be more chimin' in on this Topic of Traditional Muzzlestuffers.
 We got two of us that like to shoot the same stuff but have differant methods and ways we do shoot. Which comes from years of learning your own methods that work well for you.
I started shooting ast a pretty young age thru the Military with only Cartridge Guns. Din't start shooting Muzzle loaders till the late 1970's ... I transfered my Long Range Shooting and Combat Distance or Hunting Distances to Black Powder Guns ... They tend to be a might differant but other that a slight delay in ignition that alot don't notice or Flintlock ignition Delay Rifles are Rifles ya know...
Well I hope to hear more from ya StrawHat and hope to hear from Other Long Gun Muzzlestuffin' Shooters.
 wabbit hunter sniper
« Last Edit: February 07, 2011, 09:44:AM by Smokin_Gun » Logged
StrawHat
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 274


« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2011, 04:19:AM »

...Flintlock ignition Delay ...

With a properly set up and primed flintlock, there is no delay.  Even with a lock that is not tuned, if the priming does not cover the touchhole, the shot is nearly instantaneous with the priming charge.  I set up my flintlocks so the touch hole is centered in the trough and the top of the hole is even with the bottom of the frizzen.  A pinch of powder in the pan trough and you're good to go.  Keeping the touch hole channel clear also helps.   Some fellows use a feather in the touch hole while loading to keep it clear, others use a wire to clear the channel after loading.
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Knowledge should be shared, not hoarded.

Knowledge I take to my grave, is wasted.

I prefer to use cartridges designed before my Father was born!
Fingers McGee
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Posts: 128



« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2011, 10:32:AM »

My favorite (and only remaining) muzzleloading rifle is a Pedersoli Delux Model Tryon rifle in .54 caliber.  Match load for bulls eye, novelty, and wodds walk matches is 60 grains ffg BP, Hoppes #9 plus soaked Ox Yoke .010 patch arounf a .535 Hornady roundball.  Dead accurate loading.  Load for matches with tagets beyond 50 yards is .80 grains of ffg.  Hunting and Silhouette match load is 100 grains ffg.  Rifle shoots much better than I do; but it has won a lot of meat & chachkies in the 20+ years I've had it.





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Smokin_Gun
Guest
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2011, 02:09:AM »

Fingers I really like them Tryons ... but I guess it's my fault for limiting myself to two caliber rifles ,molds ect .50 and .58 cal... I should keep my eye out for one a them. Are they as heavy as say a Mowrey or more like a Great Plains Rifle? Were those made inwith a Flintlock also?
I couldn't choose a better Rifle if I were to choose just one ... so it's in the top runnin' for me...
 CSA
« Last Edit: February 28, 2011, 04:10:PM by Smokin_Gun » Logged
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