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Colts / Re: Navy Arms 1851 Colt Navy
« Last post by valforgettaboutit on April 20, 2017, 07:23:06 PM »
Markings Update: I went over it again just to make sure I didn't miss anything, and it turns out I did!

No Roman numerals or anything but on the end of the frame and on the inside of the barrel just above the ramrod is a matching 9. They were hidden when it was assembled so at least I can assume the two main parts were made together.
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Colts / Re: Navy Arms 1851 Colt Navy
« Last post by valforgettaboutit on April 20, 2017, 04:03:28 PM »
If there is a date code on your pistol, it should be on the right side of the frame with Roman numerals.

That is a very nice G&U you have, and as been stated earlier, very uncommon especially in that nice condition. Luckily you have a steel frame as opposed to a brass frame so it should be in good shape mechanically. The screw slots look pretty good for a used pistol. It is absolutely a .36 due to the non-rebated cylinder and the non-cut water table.

Long Johns Wolf has just supplied much information about G&U pistols that I had not seen before. Thank you, sir!

IMO, only diehards like me and LJW frequent this forum. You might get better answers from a wider audience here: http://blackpowdersmoke.com/colt/index.php

Jim


Thanks Jim! I'll definitely check that out. I'll update if I find out anything new.


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Colts / Re: Navy Arms 1851 Colt Navy
« Last post by sourdough on April 20, 2017, 02:52:42 PM »
If there is a date code on your pistol, it should be on the right side of the frame with Roman numerals.

That is a very nice G&U you have, and as been stated earlier, very uncommon especially in that nice condition. Luckily you have a steel frame as opposed to a brass frame so it should be in good shape mechanically. The screw slots look pretty good for a used pistol. It is absolutely a .36 due to the non-rebated cylinder and the non-cut water table.

Long Johns Wolf has just supplied much information about G&U pistols that I had not seen before. Thank you, sir!

IMO, only diehards like me and LJW frequent this forum. You might get better answers from a wider audience here: http://blackpowdersmoke.com/colt/index.php

Jim



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Colts / Re: Navy Arms 1851 Colt Navy
« Last post by valforgettaboutit on April 20, 2017, 10:43:18 AM »
If you completely disassemble the piece you might find assembly numbers.
Like on the front side of the cylinder, handwritten inside the wooden grip, on the left side of the butt strap, etc.
Back then these early G&Us required a lot of hand-fitting on the assembly line. But Italian labor was cheap. Val. Forgett payed something like $ 10.00/pistol.
The Italian replica industry began using computer aided manufacturing late. It happened at Uberti only in the early 2000s.
Hence if you feel parts should be changed the replacement parts are likely to appreciate some fitting.
You may wish to consult a smith that has experience with early Ubertis like Hoof Hearted from Texas.
Long Johns Wolf

Thanks LJW I appreciate all the info! I'm going to be taking it to a smith here soon to double check its safe to shoot, and try to get an evaluation on it. If I find out anything more about this guy I'll be sure to update. Been a fun adventure so far with it, I've contacted Navy Arms about it but honestly got a lot more information here, they unfortunately no longer have any records from 59-60 so all they could say was that it was a Navy and from them but that's about all.
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Colts / Re: Navy Arms 1851 Colt Navy
« Last post by Long Johns Wolf on April 20, 2017, 10:28:54 AM »
If you completely disassemble the piece you might find assembly numbers.
Like on the front side of the cylinder, handwritten inside the wooden grip, on the left side of the butt strap, etc.
Back then these early G&Us required a lot of hand-fitting on the assembly line. But Italian labor was cheap. Val. Forgett payed something like $ 10.00/pistol.
The Italian replica industry began using computer aided manufacturing late. It happened at Uberti only in the early 2000s.
Hence if you feel parts should be exchanged the replacement parts are likely to appreciate some fitting.
You may wish to consult a smith that has experience with early Ubertis like Hoof Hearted from Texas.
Long Johns Wolf
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Colts / Re: Navy Arms 1851 Colt Navy
« Last post by valforgettaboutit on April 20, 2017, 09:48:14 AM »
The first imported into the USA - made 1959/60 - reportedly had no proof marks.
The early ones I had the privilege to inspect had only one visible serial number on the trigger guard. None on the barrel lug or frame.
The Italian proof marks are usually stamped on the left side of the frame and after you lifted the loading lever also on the bottom of the barrel close to the barrel lug.
Long Johns Wolf

Thank you for the reply! This one must be from the 59/60 era then. Serial # is in the low 1700's, and there are no other markings, none on the underside of the barrel or on the frame (besides the 'Navy Arms' shown in the photo). I can provide photo's of said areas if that would help. Seems I found quite a rarity, I purchased it off an older gentleman who said he bought it off a Civil War re-enactor in the 80's.

You wouldn't happen to know if there is a market for these guys/or are they just rare? Also any knowledge on if Uberti parts still work on these? I want to keep it all original, if indeed these are the original parts, hard to tell with no other identifying stamps on anything. I just read on an ancient post on another forum a rumor about the G & U's being "handbuilt so there aren't any spare parts aside from hand fitting" and am trying to find out if that was hogwash.
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Colts / Re: Navy Arms 1851 Colt Navy
« Last post by Long Johns Wolf on April 20, 2017, 08:32:01 AM »
The first imported into the USA - made 1959/60 - reportedly had no proof marks.
The early ones I had the privilege to inspect had only one visible serial number on the trigger guard. None on the barrel lug or frame.
The Italian proof marks are usually stamped on the left side of the frame and after you lifted the loading lever also on the bottom of the barrel close to the barrel lug.
Long Johns Wolf
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Colts / Re: Navy Arms 1851 Colt Navy
« Last post by valforgettaboutit on April 20, 2017, 06:14:20 AM »
I'd be happy to but I'm not sure if there is one/where it'd be located. The only other marking on this guy is the serial number on the underside of the trigger guard. Not even any proof marks or caliber markings.
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Colts / Re: Navy Arms 1851 Colt Navy
« Last post by Long Johns Wolf on April 20, 2017, 05:02:55 AM »
These G&U percussion revolvers are rare species.
From what little I could find out Gregorelli and Uberti had their active partnership from 1959 through sometime in early 1963. That is after they made this deal with Val Forgett jr. about the supply of percussion revolver replicas in due time before the centennial of the Civil War and then some.
Their first 1851s did not have the Ormsby cylinder scene, no safety pins on the breech side of the cylinder and lacked the corresponding slot in the hammer. The only visible serial number is on the TG.
Currently known G&U marked pistols are replicas of the Colt 1851 Navy 7,5", 4 5/8" & 5,5" barrel variants, the CS pendant Griswold & Gunnison (brass frame & round barrel) 7,5" & 5,5" barrel variants, CS Leech & Rigdon 7,5" & 5,5" barrel variants, Remington New Model 1863 Army & Navy.
G&U also did a clone of the Sharps 4-shot pepperbox in .22 short. The specimen I have seen is from 1962. Which would make it the first cartridge gun with a Uberti name on it.
Would you care to share the date code of your pistol with us?
Long Johns Wolf
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Colts / Navy Arms 1851 Colt Navy
« Last post by valforgettaboutit on April 19, 2017, 08:47:46 PM »
Hello all, new member and first post so my apologies if I picked the wrong place to post this. Figured I would show the Navy Arms Colt I purchased the other week and see if anyone might know anything more about it than I do. I paid what I felt was a good price for it, but now I'm not sure if I picked up an old shooter, or something I ought to keep pristine. After some research the last week I know it's a Gregorelli & Uberti made 1851 manufactured for Navy Arms. With that stamp and a serial # in the 1700's, it must have been made/imported sometime before the mid sixties before Uberti came into his own. I'm about 99% positive its .36 caliber since the early runs didn't include any .44 quasi Navy's, but I'm lacking a .44 to compare it to. Has a little corrosion at the back end of a few cylinders, and a slight marring of the finish near the front sight but otherwise pristine. I've been looking for these at various sites but haven't found any that quite match it, or some that come close but are still in box/with accessories so the value of revolver/the availability of spare parts is a bit of a mystery to me so far. I've placed some pics below, at the very least it's solidly built and looks great, always a plus!







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