The Black Powder Revolver Collecting Forum

Percussion Revolvers => Confederate Revolvers => Topic started by: Fingers McGee on August 23, 2016, 03:16:34 PM

Title: Handguns of the Confederacy
Post by: Fingers McGee on August 23, 2016, 03:16:34 PM
A while back I posted a photo of Confederate revolvers that did not include all models - cause I didn't have them all.  Now I do.  Here are the handguns used by the Confederacy that have had reproductions made:

Counter Clockwise from the top:
Griswold and Gunnison sheriffs model ( Uberti)
Tucker & Sherrard (Uberti)
Spiller & Burr (Pietta
Schneider & Glassick(Pietta)
Leech and Rigdon (Uberti)
Rigdon & Ansley Augusta (Uberti)
Navy LeMat (Pietta)
Griswold & Gunnison
J.H. Dance (Pietta)

Center:
Leech & Rigdon Sheriffs model (Pietta)

The Tucker & Sherrard, LeMat, and J.H.Dance are .44 caliber.  All others are .36

(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c86/fingersmcgee/DSCN2382_zps7zo5hoiu.jpg)


Title: Re: Handguns of the Confederacy
Post by: mike116 on August 27, 2016, 07:06:41 PM
Great photo Fingers.    Congratulations on completing the set.
Title: Re: Handguns of the Confederacy
Post by: Fingers McGee on August 27, 2016, 10:56:02 PM
Thanks Mike
Title: Re: Handguns of the Confederacy
Post by: tljack on November 13, 2016, 06:28:17 PM
Very nice!

Great job displaying them

Terry
Title: Re: Handguns of the Confederacy
Post by: Captainkirk on November 15, 2016, 12:34:43 PM
That's a pretty awesome family photo, Fingers! Great find on that Tucker and Sherrard.
Title: Re: Handguns of the Confederacy
Post by: Fingers McGee on November 17, 2016, 12:23:17 PM
That's a pretty awesome family photo, Fingers! Great find on that Tucker and Sherrard.

Thanks Cap. 
Title: Re: Handguns of the Confederacy
Post by: Rcampb6131 on December 08, 2016, 02:56:56 PM
Here, from my collection, are the most produced revolvers by the Confederacy:

Top to bottom, Griswold & Gunnison by Pietta, (approx. 3,700); Leech & Rigdon by Uberti, (approx. 2,500 incl Rigdon & Ansley); Spiller & Burr by Pietta, (approx. 1,400); J. H. Dance & Bros by Pietta, (approx. 364 plus 136 .36 cal.)

Source:  Confederate Revolvers, by William A. Gary, K8 Communications, 1987.
Title: Re: Handguns of the Confederacy
Post by: Captainkirk on December 09, 2016, 09:35:12 AM
Beautiful! They look unfired.
Title: Re: Handguns of the Confederacy
Post by: Rcampb6131 on December 09, 2016, 09:57:58 AM
The Griswold & Gunnison is the only one I have shot so far.  The rest are waiting their turn!
Title: Re: Handguns of the Confederacy
Post by: Captainkirk on December 09, 2016, 11:55:30 AM
The Griswold & Gunnison is the only one I have shot so far.  The rest are waiting their turn!
Not to be nitpicky, but didn't the L&R originals have extra stop notches on the cylinder between battery positions?
Title: Re: Handguns of the Confederacy
Post by: Fingers McGee on December 09, 2016, 01:06:51 PM
The Griswold & Gunnison is the only one I have shot so far.  The rest are waiting their turn!
Not to be nitpicky, but didn't the L&R originals have extra stop notches on the cylinder between battery positions?

No.  The Rigdon and Ansley Augusta models were the ones with 12 bolt stops.  They were made in the 1863/64 time frame when the factory moved from MS to GA
Title: Re: Handguns of the Confederacy
Post by: Captainkirk on December 09, 2016, 03:03:28 PM
The Griswold & Gunnison is the only one I have shot so far.  The rest are waiting their turn!
Not to be nitpicky, but didn't the L&R originals have extra stop notches on the cylinder between battery positions?

No.  The Rigdon and Ansley Augusta models were the ones with 12 bolt stops.  They were made in the 1863/64 time frame when the factory moved from MS to GA
Thank you for that clarification, Fingers!
Title: Re: Handguns of the Confederacy
Post by: sourdough on December 10, 2016, 08:36:36 PM
Here, from my collection, are the most produced revolvers by the Confederacy:

Top to bottom, Griswold & Gunnison by Pietta, (approx. 3,700); Leech & Rigdon by Uberti, (approx. 2,500 incl Rigdon & Ansley); Spiller & Burr by Pietta, (approx. 1,400); J. H. Dance & Bros by Pietta, (approx. 364 plus 136 .36 cal.)

Source:  Confederate Revolvers, by William A. Gary, K8 Communications, 1987.

The J. H. Dance is my next project. If it is a Pietta, I am only aware of their Dance produced as a .44 with a non-rebated (straight) cylinder/non-cut water table.

Is yours a .44? I want a Dance in .36 for my mix/match 1851 Navy collection and I think, with a bit of work, a Dance .44 in that configuration will work with a Pietta Navy .36 cylinder and barrel, as all are CNC machined these days, and I cannot imagine Pietta creating a special Dance frame, as above.

Any help appreciated, sir.

Jim
Title: Re: Handguns of the Confederacy
Post by: Rcampb6131 on December 11, 2016, 10:37:20 PM
Jim, my Dance is a .44.  I have tried a barrel and cylinder from a Griswold & Gunnison, and while they fit, the G & G cylinder is slightly smaller than the Dance.  As a result, the bolt doesn't rise far enough to securely lock the cylinder in battery. 
TC
Title: Re: Handguns of the Confederacy
Post by: sourdough on December 12, 2016, 02:22:40 PM
Jim, my Dance is a .44.  I have tried a barrel and cylinder from a Griswold & Gunnison, and while they fit, the G & G cylinder is slightly smaller than the Dance.  As a result, the bolt doesn't rise far enough to securely lock the cylinder in battery. 
TC

Thank you, sir! I guess I'll rethink my pipe dream.

As an afterthought, have you tried to fit the .44 Dance cylinder/barrel to a Pietta 1851 Navy .36 frame? If so, does the cylinder drag on the frame water table or bolt? If not, that is a plus, and I may proceed.

If so, I need go no further.

Sorry for all of the questions, sir.

Jim
Title: Re: Handguns of the Confederacy
Post by: Rcampb6131 on December 13, 2016, 09:57:35 AM
Jim, the Dance .44 will slide on to the arbor of the G & G, but it is a tight fit.  In addition, when attempting to cock the hammer, the cylinder locks up the action.  It probably could be made to work with a LIttle gunsmithing.  IMO, the Dance would need a customized bolt installed in order to use the G & G .36 cal. cylinder. 
Tc
Title: Re: Handguns of the Confederacy
Post by: sourdough on December 14, 2016, 03:49:47 PM
Jim, the Dance .44 will slide on to the arbor of the G & G, but it is a tight fit.  In addition, when attempting to cock the hammer, the cylinder locks up the action.  It probably could be made to work with a little gunsmithing.  IMO, the Dance would need a customized bolt installed in order to use the G & G .36 cal. cylinder. 
Tc

Thanks, TC! Valuable information for me. You have made my day (sort of!) by steering me down a good path. You have probably saved me a bunch of money and heartache down the line.

Still scratching my head as to the non-cut water table dimensional difference between the Dance and the 1851 Navy. I find it hard to believe that Pietta created a new frame for the Dance as it does not seem to be nearly as popular as the 1851 Navy (insofar as sales), unless there was an additional milling process on the Dance water table to remove a few thousandths of steel to fit the cylinder (perhaps at the same time as the recoil shields were milled off?). I sure would like to be a fly on the wall in the Pietta factory! I would be interested to see the external cylinder diameter difference between the Dance .44 and the 1851 Navy cylinders, as well as the depth of the bolt slots on those cylinders, but I am not asking you to do that. You have been very gracious.

Info much appreciated, sir.

Jim
Title: Re: Handguns of the Confederacy
Post by: Rcampb6131 on December 15, 2016, 11:35:35 AM
Jim, I don't have a micrometer, but here is a picture of the two cylinders.  You can see the difference.

Title: Re: Handguns of the Confederacy
Post by: Captainkirk on December 15, 2016, 12:33:30 PM
Wow...that's significant. Almost like the difference between Dragoon and Army.
Title: Re: Handguns of the Confederacy
Post by: sourdough on December 16, 2016, 03:33:53 PM
Thanks, TC!

Still puzzled as to how Pietta got that to fit an 1851 Navy frame unless the water table was milled some.

Guess I get to save my money for something else!

Jim
Title: Re: Handguns of the Confederacy
Post by: Hewy on January 29, 2017, 07:47:26 PM
Here, from my collection, are the most produced revolvers by the Confederacy:

Top to bottom, Griswold & Gunnison by Pietta, (approx. 3,700); Leech & Rigdon by Uberti, (approx. 2,500 incl Rigdon & Ansley); Spiller & Burr by Pietta, (approx. 1,400); J. H. Dance & Bros by Pietta, (approx. 364 plus 136 .36 cal.)

Source:  Confederate Revolvers, by William A. Gary, K8 Communications, 1987.
Little by little I am entering the collectors roll.The reason I picked this post, is that I am working on
obtaining the  same four Confederate revolvers as shown in Rcampb photo.
Not quite there yet, but getting close.
Hewy
Title: Re: Handguns of the Confederacy
Post by: sourdough on January 30, 2017, 04:03:45 PM
Here, from my collection, are the most produced revolvers by the Confederacy:

Top to bottom, Griswold & Gunnison by Pietta, (approx. 3,700); Leech & Rigdon by Uberti, (approx. 2,500 incl Rigdon & Ansley); Spiller & Burr by Pietta, (approx. 1,400); J. H. Dance & Bros by Pietta, (approx. 364 plus 136 .36 cal.)

Source:  Confederate Revolvers, by William A. Gary, K8 Communications, 1987.
Little by little I am entering the collectors roll.The reason I picked this post, is that I am working on
obtaining the  same four Confederate revolvers as shown in Rcampb photo.
Not quite there yet, but getting close.
Hewy

Well, Hewy, after that you need a Schneider and Glassick, an Augusta Machine Works, a Columbus Fire Arms Mfg. Co., a Rigdon and Ansley (12 bolt stops), a George Todd, a Tucker, Sherrard, and Company, and others.

[Source: "Confederate Handguns", Albaugh/Benet/Simmons (1963), pub. Bonanza Books New York]

Just trying to help adjust your bank account to Make America Green Again!

 ;)

Or, you can cheat (like I did) and use 3 different Pietta 1851 Navy Type .36 pistols (1851 Second Model, 1851 Third Model, and G&G) to create 5 different "historical" replicas (to add a S&G and a L&R) and many fantasy pistols by swapping barrels, cylinders and frames with no tools required.

My favorite Pietta fantasy pistol: 1851 Navy Second Model Dragoon .36 (using the Second Model steel frame/SB trigger guard and the G&G barrel/cylinder). I still think that Colt should have manufactured this while still marketing SB trigger guards:

(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii274/sourdoughjim/Pietta%201851%20Navy%20Dragoon_zps1jqruwqk.jpg)

We all have to admit that I am doing no service (when I die) to future replica collectors when they acquire my Pietta S&G and L&R and cannot find any reference to Pietta making these models (so far). If one wants to brown formerly blued parts (as in creating a George Todd) sobeit, but I disdain anyone defarbing an original replica so as to create something that may be construed as a true original. To me, that is not what replica collecting is all about.

Just my $.02 worth.

Happy hunting and modifying replicas to fit.

Jim
Title: Re: Handguns of the Confederacy
Post by: Hewy on January 30, 2017, 08:26:08 PM
sourdough, I don't have the...aah.. dough , to get more. So the four I have *.
will do for now.
*The Dance and Leech & Rigdon are in route to me.
 {;(
Title: Re: Handguns of the Confederacy
Post by: Captainkirk on January 31, 2017, 08:31:48 AM
And don't forget the Big Daddy...the LeMat.