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Author Topic: Howell .22 conversion for Colts  (Read 29450 times)

Offline ssb73q

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Re: Howell .22 conversion for Colts
« Reply #75 on: August 05, 2016, 04:20:51 AM »
Hi prof, let us know if a "just the cylinder" purchase is an option.

Regards,
Richard
« Last Edit: August 05, 2016, 04:40:18 AM by ssb73q »
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Offline Bishop Creek

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Re: Howell .22 conversion for Colts
« Reply #76 on: August 13, 2016, 03:18:03 PM »
Quote

Hi prof, just released by Kirst, .22 converter for the Uberti 1849 (& 1862):

http://www.kirstkonverter.com/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=1&cat=1848%2C+1849%2C+1862+Colt+Konverter

Regards,
Richard

Look mighty interesting. Like to have one for my 2nd Gen Colt 1862 Police, but I wonder if they can be loaded without removing the cylinder like ssb73q's or if they require porting the recoil shield.

Offline ssb73q

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Re: Howell .22 conversion for Colts
« Reply #77 on: August 14, 2016, 03:42:29 AM »
Hi Bishop, it looks like you need to have the recoil shield modified if loading without cylinder removal is desired. If one does modify their recoil shield for that cylinder they turn the revolver into a handgun regulated by the ATF, you will need an FFL licensed person involved to sell and/or buy it.

A properly set up Colt can do a cylinder change out as fast if not faster than an 1858 Remington.

Regards,
Richard

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Offline Bishop Creek

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Re: Howell .22 conversion for Colts
« Reply #78 on: August 14, 2016, 10:00:29 AM »
Thanks for the info Richard. I do believe you are correct. The cylinder gate looks like one for porting and not loading like your .22 models. I really don't want to cut into the recoil shield and modify it, so maybe cylinder removal would be in order to reload.

Offline ssb73q

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Re: Howell .22 conversion for Colts
« Reply #79 on: August 14, 2016, 10:39:30 AM »
Hi Bishop, I'm looking forward to getting one of these new .22 conversion cylinders for the 1849 and 1862. Having painfully seen the unintended issues for a new conversion cylinder entry to the market, I'm going to wait some to make sure all the bugs are worked out. While waiting I may make a full length .22 barrel for my 1862 in anticipation of getting the conversion cylinder. Accuracy with those slip in short barrels is problematic, while a full length barrel can turn a revolver into a tack driver. The .22 barrel inserts I have been using:
http://www.gunpartscorp.com/ad/527760.htm

Regards,
Richard
There’s nothing better in the morning than the smell of bacon and black powder smoke!

Offline Bishop Creek

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Re: Howell .22 conversion for Colts
« Reply #80 on: August 14, 2016, 11:18:43 AM »
I may do the same and wait awhile too. I have been following this thread for quite some time and find your work and thoughts on these .22 conversion cylinders very interesting. I really like the looks of your Pietta snubbie with the .22 cylinder.

Offline ssb73q

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Re: Howell .22 conversion for Colts
« Reply #81 on: August 15, 2016, 07:54:03 AM »
Hi Bishop, there is one potential issue for putting a full length .22 barrel liner in an 1862, there isn't any way to change the poi. The .44 caliber barrels allow using an eccentric front bushing that can be rotated to change the poi. Using full length barrel liners in a .36 is a crap shoot. Only if the revolver barrel is accurately aligned with the sights will the full length .22 barrel work properly. While this may be a gamble it is still worth a try?

Regards,
Richard
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Offline Bishop Creek

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Re: Howell .22 conversion for Colts
« Reply #82 on: August 15, 2016, 02:57:25 PM »
Good question, and something to think about before investing in a conversion cylinder.

Offline ssb73q

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Re: Howell .22 conversion for Colts
« Reply #83 on: August 27, 2016, 12:05:53 PM »
Hi Bishop, well I done did it. Ordered one of the Kirst .22 conversion cylinders for the 1849/1862 Uberti. It took a few scotch before pushing the buy button. Kirst sold out their first batch pretty quickly and their second batch is selling. This will be my 18th conversion cylinder. Only hope that adding a full length barrel insert will shoot poi=poa.

This a warning to my safe queen Uberti 1862, you may be soon put to work!

BTW, I already have a collectable Kirst 32 S&W short conversion cylinder that Kirst discontinued. Hope this won't be the second collectable.

I have a number of .22 barrel liners ready for machining.

I wonder if the Prof was successful buying only the cylinder. My only issue with these .22 conversion cylinders is that the cylinder chamber diameter is too tight for some .22 brands. Also, the .22 conversion cylinders kits don't have a reasonable sized forcing cone in their barrel. I ream these cylinders to 0.2235 to accept all .22 ammo and provide a generous forcing cone in my full length barrels. Accuracy has been excellent with these modifications.

I will post to this thread what I learn.

Regards,
Richard 
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Offline Bishop Creek

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Re: Howell .22 conversion for Colts
« Reply #84 on: August 27, 2016, 04:00:22 PM »
Hi Bishop, well I done did it. Ordered one of the Kirst .22 conversion cylinders for the 1849/1862 Uberti. It took a few scotch before pushing the buy button. Kirst sold out their first batch pretty quickly and their second batch is selling. This will be my 18th conversion cylinder. Only hope that adding a full length barrel insert will shoot poi=poa.

This a warning to my safe queen Uberti 1862, you may be soon put to work!

BTW, I already have a collectable Kirst 32 S&W short conversion cylinder that Kirst discontinued. Hope this won't be the second collectable.

I have a number of .22 barrel liners ready for machining.

I wonder if the Prof was successful buying only the cylinder. My only issue with these .22 conversion cylinders is that the cylinder chamber diameter is too tight for some .22 brands. Also, the .22 conversion cylinders kits don't have a reasonable sized forcing cone in their barrel. I ream these cylinders to 0.2235 to accept all .22 ammo and provide a generous forcing cone in my full length barrels. Accuracy has been excellent with these modifications.

I will post to this thread what I learn.

Regards,
Richard 

Great! I'm really looking forward to your review. I'm curious as to how it will fit in your 1862 Police as I have a 2nd Gen Colt 1862 Police (same as Uberti) that I'd like to use with one of those .22 cylinders. Just don't think I want to cut a port in it though to load.

Offline ssb73q

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Re: Howell .22 conversion for Colts
« Reply #85 on: August 31, 2016, 12:25:59 PM »
Hi, the Kirst .22 conversion for the Uberti 1849/1862 just came in the door. The barrel with barrel bushing would not install in the 1862, the bushing is too large in diameter by a couple of thousands. The bushing diameter is 0.360". The 2.25" barrel did install in the 1849 Wells Fargo. The barrel fit is tight, nice. Barrel to cylinder gap is 0.026". That's much much too large and will need to shimmed. While the cylinder will chamber Blazer .22 (a problem for other .22 conversion cylinders), the exit chambers on the cylinder is 0.220". I will ream these to 0.2235". The operation of the 1849 with the Kirst conversion cylinder installed is a little rough, but may improve with use.

I have machined a 3/8-24 thread on the end of a new full length .22 barrel insert for use with the 1862. The current diameter of the barrel is 0.375" and will need to be reduced to somewhat less than 0.360".

The instructions that came with the conversion cylinder are weak and only addresses cutting out a loading opening in the recoil shield.

I will report more as I learn more.

Regards,
Richard
« Last Edit: August 31, 2016, 03:30:26 PM by ssb73q »
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Offline Bishop Creek

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Re: Howell .22 conversion for Colts
« Reply #86 on: August 31, 2016, 12:36:06 PM »
Good info. Thanks Richard.

Offline ssb73q

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Re: Howell .22 conversion for Colts
« Reply #87 on: September 01, 2016, 06:52:35 AM »
Hi, it's already clear to me that there are some setup issues that need to be resolved before using the Kirst .22 Uberti 1849/1862 conversion cylinder. My 1849 Wells Fargo operation is rough and it's obvious that I need to do some refinement of the Fargo's hand. The Kirst installed in my conventional 1849 (has loading lever) went much smoother, there are no issues with that revolver. However, getting my 1862 to cycle properly was a royal pita. The bolt needed to be narrowed a couple thousands and the hand needed to be significantly shortened. This was a balancing act having the hand long enough for the percussion cylinder and short enough for the Kirst. The hand was blended to achieve both goals. I just don't understand on why Kirst didn't simply copy the cylinder ratchet of the C&B cylinder and decided to do their own design.

IMO unless you are very lucky, don't expect the .22 Kirst for the 1849/1862 to simply drop in. You may need to do some work. While a second grader with good mechanical aptitude can easily do mods on a Walker, these small frame 1849/1862s require the skill of a watchmaker.

BTW, I see that the Kirst .22 conversion cylinder 2.25" barrel has a generous forcing cone. That wasn't the case for the other Kirst .22 conversion cylinder barrels.

The next thing I will do is to do more machining on the 1862 .22 full length barrel. I had been toying with only putting a nut on the forcing cone end of the barrel, but the more I think about it, having the barrel liner under tension with nuts on each end may be a better accuracy configuration. That's what I do with my other .22 conversion with full length barrels. Kind of like the Dan Wesson system.

Regards,
Richard
« Last Edit: September 01, 2016, 06:55:17 AM by ssb73q »
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Offline Bishop Creek

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Re: Howell .22 conversion for Colts
« Reply #88 on: September 01, 2016, 06:42:15 PM »
Hmmm. More good info. Thanks Richard.

Offline ssb73q

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Re: Howell .22 conversion for Colts
« Reply #89 on: September 02, 2016, 09:20:06 AM »
Hi, the Kirst .22 conversion cylinder chamber exit holes were reamed to 0.2235". The original exit diameters were 0.220". The full length 0.375" OD barrel has been turned to an OD of 0.358", threaded on each end 3/8-24. The rear of the barrel was reamed with an 11 deg reamer to create a generous forcing cone. The barrel liner fits perfectly in the 1862 barrel and requires a little pressure to slide it in, IMO a better fit than expected. I have brass nuts that could be used, but ordered black oxide steel nuts for the forcing cone end of the barrel. A steel nut makes sense since it will receive the greatest mechanical loading on firing. I may use a brass nut for the muzzle end of the barrel so as to not mar the bluing on the end of the 36 caliber barrel. The steel nuts should arrive early next week. A round file will be used to narrow one edge of the steel nut so that the barrel clears and fits the arbor.

More to come.

Regards,
Richard 
There’s nothing better in the morning than the smell of bacon and black powder smoke!