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Author Topic: Howell .22 conversion for Colts  (Read 29454 times)

Offline ssb73q

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Re: Howell .22 conversion for Colts
« Reply #90 on: September 03, 2016, 09:31:47 AM »
Hi, finding a small front nut for the full length barrel has been difficult. The standard brass or steel 3/8-24 nut is too large for the 1862 barrel muzzle. Standard 3/8-24 nuts have a 9/16" flat to flat, the muzzle across flats is 0.569", the standard nut would obscure the sight. I turned round a brass 3/8-24 nut round to 0.569", but it would need some method of torquing it down. I found a flange nut that I will try, see:
http://www.mcmaster.com/#90759a350/=140bi4c

The flange is too wide, but the flange can be turned down. If I use a steel front nut, I will also use a brass washer to prevent marring the 1862 barrel muzzle.

BTW, I measured the required thickness of the rear nut to produce a zero barrel to cylinder clearance of my Kirst 1862 .22 conversion, 0.297". To create a 0.0015" cylinder to barrel clearance, the rear nut thickness will be turned to 0.2955".

More to come.

Regards,
Richard
There’s nothing better in the morning than the smell of bacon and black powder smoke!

Offline ssb73q

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Re: Howell .22 conversion for Colts
« Reply #91 on: September 03, 2016, 11:37:24 AM »
Hi, the full length barrel liner for the 1862 in the white:



When the barrel is cut to the exact length it will be blued.

IMO making full legth .22 conversion cylinder barre;s would be a nice cottage industry for an enterprising gunsmith, like GoonsWorks? They are sure easy to make, the raw barrel liner stock costs ~$11.

Regards,
Richard
There’s nothing better in the morning than the smell of bacon and black powder smoke!

Offline ssb73q

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Re: Howell .22 conversion for Colts
« Reply #92 on: September 08, 2016, 08:50:01 AM »
Hi, the rear nut has been fabricated that creates a barrel/cylinder gap of 0.002":







The new steel front nuts should arrive today. After setting the exact barrel length the steel barrel parts will be blued.

Regards,
Richard
There’s nothing better in the morning than the smell of bacon and black powder smoke!

Offline ssb73q

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Re: Howell .22 conversion for Colts
« Reply #93 on: September 08, 2016, 10:11:03 AM »
Hi, one thing I notice on my Uberti 1862 is that one of the brass arbor length adjusting washers broke off during the fitting of the .22 insert barrel. This has me thinking of drilling and tapping a 10-32 hole in the end of the arbor. Then insert a steel 10-32 set screw and adjust for the correct barrel/cylinder gap. Then put some Loctite blue on the threads to hold in position. If ever needed the blue Loctite can be easily broken to reset the screw.

The downside on this is that the revolver is permanently modified decreasing resale value. The brass washers used to mod the arbor are completely 100% reversible.

Still thinking about this.

Regards,
Richard
There’s nothing better in the morning than the smell of bacon and black powder smoke!

Offline Bishop Creek

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Re: Howell .22 conversion for Colts
« Reply #94 on: September 08, 2016, 07:09:11 PM »
You do incredible work Richard! Though I am a published graphic artist, illustrator, and radio announcer, I wish I had those machining skills. I can't wait to see the end result.

Offline ssb73q

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Re: Howell .22 conversion for Colts
« Reply #95 on: September 09, 2016, 05:44:06 AM »
Hi Bishop, thank you for the very kind words. While I have a reasonable mechanical aptitude, my tools are limited to a minilathe, drill press, and lots of files. If one takes their time they can do wonders with a file. The finished blued full length barrel:



The .22 barrel mounted in the Uberti 1862:



Shooting comes next.

Regards,
Richard
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Offline mike116

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Re: Howell .22 conversion for Colts
« Reply #96 on: September 09, 2016, 06:51:32 AM »
Another good looking full barrel conversion Richard.   You are getting skilled at this process.    I bet you have it shooting well by the end of the first range session.

Offline ssb73q

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Re: Kirst .22 conversion for 1862
« Reply #97 on: September 09, 2016, 08:25:44 AM »
Hi Mike, thank you. I went out back and fired 100rds @25yds of .22 Thunderbolt with the Kirst Conversion and full length barrel. Shooting the revolver with the first few rounds were a little rough. The action smoothed up with a little use. Initial groups were ~3.5", but decreased to 2.5" with continued shooting. The revolver windage is good thank goodness, but it shoots ~4.5" high. Getting a good grip and hand hold for accurate shooting is tough with this small framed revolver.

There were a couple of issues I experienced. The first was that after loading the cylinder the cylinder wouldn't rotate. I discovered that the .22 in the open portion of the recoil shield would back out preventing cylinder rotation. IMO there should be some kind of gate. Once I learned what was happening, pointing the revolver down when cocking the first round allowed reliable cylinder rotation. The other issue is that one chamber must have a larger center area where the empty shell takes some force to push out of the cylinder. Shells from the other chambers mostly fall out. Since there is no safety in this conversion, keeping that cylinder empty would be good range practice, you know, load one, skip one, and then load the rest.

Since accuracy isn't up to par with my other .22 conversions that are tack drivers, this Kirst/1862 will only get casually shooting use. The small frame of the Uberti 1862 is more of a curiosity handgun compared to the larger framed revolvers. The Uberti 1862 with the Kirst .22 conversion goes back to its royal position in the safe.

Bottom line is that the Kirst .22 conversion in the 1862 works well, but if one is looking for a tack driver, get a larger frame revolver to do a .22 conversion.

Regards,
Richard
There’s nothing better in the morning than the smell of bacon and black powder smoke!

Offline ssb73q

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Re: Howell .22 conversion for Colts
« Reply #98 on: September 09, 2016, 10:23:49 AM »
Hi, you can see the problem opening in the Kirst .22 conversion cylinder ring here:

http://www.kirstkonverter.com/22-caliber-colt-pocket-model.html

Those that don't want to file a loading port into the frame that would make the revolver an FFL regulated firearm, that recoil shield ring could be filled up. A small piece of brass fitted to the opening and JB Weld in would cure the .22 backing out problem. The next time I get the 1862 out of the safe that opening will be fixed.

BTW, I didn't put a set screw into the arbor end, but JB Weld a new brass washer onto the arbor end and filed the washer to produce a 0.002" cylinder to barrel gap. That solution is 100% reversible as would JB Welding a brass piece into the conversion cylinder recoil shield opening.

Regards,
Richard
There’s nothing better in the morning than the smell of bacon and black powder smoke!

Offline ssb73q

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Re: Kirst.22 conversion for 1849
« Reply #99 on: September 10, 2016, 08:18:46 AM »
Hi, I shot the Kirst .22 conversion with the short Kirst barrel in my Uberti 1849 revolver. I was pleasantly surprised on how accurate the short barrel is, ~3-3.5" @25yds. Windage right on, but shoots ~4" high. Of course the velocity would be lower than a full length barrel, but the accuracy for a drop-in barrel is very good. The .22 barrel insert is very tight in the main barrel, maybe the reason for such good accuracy. Maybe I should have tried it in the Uberti 1862?

Regards,
Richard
There’s nothing better in the morning than the smell of bacon and black powder smoke!

Offline ssb73q

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Re: Kirst .22 conversion for Colts
« Reply #100 on: September 14, 2016, 03:51:17 AM »
Hi, you can see the problem opening in the Kirst .22 conversion cylinder ring here:

http://www.kirstkonverter.com/22-caliber-colt-pocket-model.html

Those that don't want to file a loading port into the frame that would make the revolver an FFL regulated firearm, that recoil shield ring could be filled up. A small piece of brass fitted to the opening and JB Weld in would cure the .22 backing out problem. The next time I get the 1862 out of the safe that opening will be fixed.

Regards,
Richard

Hi, the Kirst conversion cylinder now has had a brass filler piece added to the recoil ring to prevent .22 cartridges backing out when using the cylinder. The brass part was JB Weld to the ring, see:



The Kirst .22 conversion cylinder for the 1849/1862 lacks a gate, IMO a big mistake.

Regards,
Richard
There’s nothing better in the morning than the smell of bacon and black powder smoke!

Offline ssb73q

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Re: Kirst .22 conversion for Colts
« Reply #101 on: September 26, 2016, 09:37:54 AM »
Hi, I have been having a few fail to fire occurrences using the Kirst 1849/1862 conversion cylinder. Some investigation shows that the rear ring of the cylinder can rotate slightly where the hammer hits the left end of the ring instead of full hammer contact on the firing pin. This can be solved by adding a little JB Weld to the right bottom portion of the ring. Another approach is to dremel a little steel off the left side of the ring next to the firing pin. You can see how close the firing pin is next to the left edge of the ring:



BTW, that brass insert worked perfectly to prevent .22s from backing out blocking rotation of the cylinder.

Regards,
Richard
There’s nothing better in the morning than the smell of bacon and black powder smoke!

Offline ssb73q

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Re: Kirst .22 conversion for Colts
« Reply #102 on: September 28, 2016, 07:16:01 AM »
Hi, I very slightly rounded the edges of the cylinder ring near the top where the hammer first enters the ring opening before the firing pin. The outside edges of the Uberti 1862 hammer were also slightly rounded to prevent the hammer edges hitting and hanging up on the entrance of the conversion cylinder ring. This now allows a little rotational play of the ring, but still have the hammer fully impact the firing pin. IMO this is an appropriate fix for the occasional misfires that were experienced before. IMO Kirst should have done this modification in the first place.

Regards,
Richard
There’s nothing better in the morning than the smell of bacon and black powder smoke!

Offline ssb73q

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Re: Kirst .22 conversion for Colts
« Reply #103 on: June 02, 2017, 10:46:24 AM »
Hi, I have been having a few fail to fire occurrences using the Kirst 1849/1862 conversion cylinder. Some investigation shows that the rear ring of the cylinder can rotate slightly where the hammer hits the left end of the ring instead of full hammer contact on the firing pin. This can be solved by adding a little JB Weld to the right bottom portion of the ring. Another approach is to dremel a little steel off the left side of the ring next to the firing pin. You can see how close the firing pin is next to the left edge of the ring:



BTW, that brass insert worked perfectly to prevent .22s from backing out blocking rotation of the cylinder.

Regards,
Richard

Hi, well, well, guess what? That brass insert broke away from the cylinder back plate. So much for JB Weld. I recently experience a JB Weld failure of a Uberti 1860 front sight. I used Loctite 380 to reattach the brass piece to the .22 conversion cylinder back plate. Time will tell if it is a better solution than JB Weld.

Regards,
Richard
There’s nothing better in the morning than the smell of bacon and black powder smoke!

Offline ssb73q

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Re: Howell .22 conversion for Colts
« Reply #104 on: May 22, 2018, 05:04:25 AM »
Hi, when I first tested a full length .22 barrel with the Uberti 1862 and Kirst .22 conversion cylinder, I was not happy since the revolver shot high. Unlike the .44 caliber .22 full length barrels there isn't any poi adjustment with the .22 barrel that fits snugly inside the Uberti .36 barrel.  Since I now have a taller front sight on my Uberti 1862 it will be interesting if the 1862 .22 conversion cylinders shoots more to poa. The Uberti 1862 with full length .22 barrel and Kirst .22 conversion cylinder:



I am still very angry at PhotoBucket for losing all my previously posted photos. So much information was lost. Hope the decision makers of PhotoBucket fry in hell.

Regards,
Richard
There’s nothing better in the morning than the smell of bacon and black powder smoke!