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Author Topic: My S&Gs  (Read 10802 times)

Offline Ringo

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Re: My S&Gs
« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2016, 01:20:03 AM »
Does anyone have distinct information about the S&G iron frame "anomaly"? I cannot find any info as to who owns it, where it is, et al.

I have read about the iron frame part octagon, part round barrel S&G. My mind wanders to think that it is a very accurate description of a Leech and Rigdon.

I would love to have more info and a pic of the iron frame round barrel S&G.

Jim
I guess all the info one can find about that specimen is from Albaugh, Bennet and Simmons's classic "Confederate Handguns". The photo bears "courtesy Edward N. Simmons", so I would believe the revolver was in Mr Simmons' collection at the time (1963).

The book also holds descriptions of several other revolvers which would deserve to be replicated too : Tucker & Sherrard (a replica was made by Uberti years ago, not too faithful to the original if I recall correctly), George Todd, Thomas W Cofer, ...
I seem to recall that "Augusta Machine Works" has been dismissed as an arms maker, but I am not too sure about that. Would anyone be able to confirm or correct ?

Offline sourdough

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« Last Edit: January 17, 2016, 05:45:32 AM by sourdough »
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Offline Ringo

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Re: My S&Gs
« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2016, 05:51:31 AM »
... and thanks, Sourdough !

Offline Fingers McGee

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Re: My S&Gs
« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2016, 10:08:18 AM »
Here are some pictures I downloaded in 2008 of an Augusta marked revolver - IIRC it was from a RIA Auction - but not absolutely sure though.




These pictures are what I used to make my copies:



« Last Edit: January 17, 2016, 10:43:33 AM by Fingers McGee »
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Offline Captainkirk

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Re: My S&Gs
« Reply #19 on: January 17, 2016, 08:02:23 PM »
Very nice likenesses, Fingers! And I love your S&G's, Ringo. Here's mine. I didn't have the heart to defarb it.


If'n ya want, you can read the whole story here via this link:

http://blackpowdersmoke.com/colt/index.php?topic=96.0
« Last Edit: January 17, 2016, 08:05:32 PM by Captainkirk »
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Offline Ringo

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Re: My S&Gs
« Reply #20 on: January 18, 2016, 02:24:41 AM »
Here are some pictures I downloaded in 2008 of an Augusta marked revolver - IIRC it was from a RIA Auction - but not absolutely sure though.
The revolver is marked Augusta, but also C.H. Rigdon. Another one bearing the same markings, but displaying a short barrel (5"), is described in Albaugh and Steuart's book "the original Confederate Colt". It also has 12 stops like the one you show. After dissolving his partnership with Leech, Rigdon relocated in Augusta and went on producing revolvers under the same contract with the Confederation. These revolvers were therefore made in Augusta, but not by the Augusta Machine Works.
You will find a very informative article about Leech & Rigdon, Rigdon & Ainsley, etc... on the American Society of Arms Collectors site : http://americansocietyofarmscollectors.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Leech-and-Rigdon-Confederate-revolvers-B072_Meredith.pdf
The gentleman who wrote it, Edward J. Meredith, apparently owns one the Augusta made Rigdons, which he displays in the last pictures featured.

These pictures are what I used to make my copies
As far as I can see, you used a Leech & Rigdon replica, the blueing of which you aged a bit after removing the italian markings and stamping the CH Rigdon ones, and adding 6 new stops between the originals. I for one thing would not know how to add these stops and stampings, and for another thing would not dare doing these changes on a L&R. They are so hard to find over here. As you know, I had to have the barrel of a 1851 turned and to file off the cylinder engraving to make mine.
The result you obtained is great. I'd really like to add one such to my collection.

Very nice likenesses, Fingers! And I love your S&G's, Ringo. Here's mine. I didn't have the heart to defarb it.
You already did a good job cleaning it and reviving it. I usually do not defarb my replicas either. Most are more than 40 years old, and their markings, whether from the italian maker or the american importer, are really not too prominent. Furthermore, like Dr Jim Davis, I feel they are collectible in themselves. So I just keep them as they are. I usually only give them a good thorough cleaning inside ad outside. Regarding my L&R and my Dance, I had to do something myself, as I was not able to find replicas although I had been looking for them high and low for ages. The L&R was originally a Rigarmi 1851, and I never found another since. So every now and then I tell myself I should never have used it, just kept it in my collection and do the job on a Pietta.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2016, 04:43:11 AM by Ringo »

Offline Fingers McGee

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Re: My S&Gs
« Reply #21 on: January 18, 2016, 09:51:44 AM »
The finish on the Rigdons was aged to approximate 10 years wear/use after manufacture.  I had a pair of Uberti L&Rs done about 5 years ago to be used in CAS matches; not just the one in the pictures.  One was made in1973 and the other in 2007.  Other than the nipple threads, they are identical.  They were defarbed of markings that are visible.  The manufacturer and date code still exists under the loading lever so they cant be passed off as originals.  They both came with blank cylinders. 

I've got the Confederate Colt book, along with a half dozen others that reference the Confederate pistols made during the war. 





 
« Last Edit: January 18, 2016, 12:25:23 PM by Fingers McGee »
Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee - AKA Man of Many Colts; SASS 28564-L-TG, rangemaster and stage writer extraordinaire; Frontiersman/Pistoleer, NRA Endowment Life, Central Ozarks Western Shooters
Cynic: A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they should be.  Ambrose Bierce

Offline Rcampb6131

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Re: My S&Gs
« Reply #22 on: January 18, 2016, 11:33:15 AM »
Here are my two Schneider & Glassicks.  The top one was made in 1978 by Fusav di & Baronio.  The bottom one was made in 1975 by Pierino Ruschetta.

RC

Offline Ringo

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Re: My S&Gs
« Reply #23 on: January 18, 2016, 12:13:16 PM »
Hello Semester,
Did you buy the Fusav di Bini & Baronio from Prairie Dawg ? It is really a rarity. I have never seen that brand anywhere else. Would you please post some more pictures, including the makers marking ?
I would be glad to see more photos of your PR too, including the marking on the butt.
Although they both are S&G, the number of differences between the two is striking.  (jh


Offline Captainkirk

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Re: My S&Gs
« Reply #24 on: January 18, 2016, 12:23:30 PM »
Not to nitpick, but...if memory serves, in JL Davis' article on the "Accidental S&G" one of the things that makes it an S&G (as opposed to a brass Navy) is the absence of any roil engraving on the cylinder.
That is why I jumped on my ASM when I saw it...it was the first Navy brasser I had seen with a plain cylinder in cal. 36



« Last Edit: January 18, 2016, 12:25:51 PM by Captainkirk »
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Offline Rcampb6131

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Re: My S&Gs
« Reply #25 on: January 18, 2016, 01:25:25 PM »
Ringo,

Here is the marking for the Fusav di Bini & Baronio.


RC
« Last Edit: January 18, 2016, 01:28:40 PM by Semester »

Offline Rcampb6131

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Re: My S&Gs
« Reply #26 on: January 18, 2016, 01:27:09 PM »
Ringo,
Here is the Pierino Ruschetta.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2016, 01:29:19 PM by Semester »

Offline Ringo

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Re: My S&Gs
« Reply #27 on: January 18, 2016, 04:18:47 PM »
Thanks, Semester. It is the first time I ever see a Fusav di Bini & Baronio. You really have got yourself a rarity.
As for the Pierino Ruschetta, it appears it might be rather a "Riva Esterina". At least that is what the Gardone proofhouse told me when I asked them about the PR logo. Riva Esterina was an italian firm which also used the trademark Dart and whose arms where mainly imported in the U.S.A. by FIE.

Offline Ringo

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Re: My S&Gs
« Reply #28 on: January 18, 2016, 04:24:10 PM »
Not to nitpick, but...if memory serves, in JL Davis' article on the "Accidental S&G" one of the things that makes it an S&G (as opposed to a brass Navy) is the absence of any roil engraving on the cylinder.
You are absolutely right, Captainkirk. S&Gs being made in the Confederation and having nothing to do with Colt (except for nicking the shape and action of the 1851 Navy), they did not bear any engraving on their cylinders, not anywhere else.
The problem is a "brass Navy" never existed either. Neither did a Navy ever be made in 44 caliber, although a great many are sold nowadays.
So we might as well call them "S&G with engraved cylinders". ;)

Offline sourdough

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Re: My S&Gs
« Reply #29 on: January 18, 2016, 06:26:19 PM »
Thanks, Semester. It is the first time I ever see a Fusav di Bini & Baronio. You really have got yourself a rarity.
As for the Pierino Ruschetta, it appears it might be rather a "Riva Esterina". At least that is what the Gardone proofhouse told me when I asked them about the PR logo. Riva Esterina was an italian firm which also used the trademark Dart and whose arms where mainly imported in the U.S.A. by FIE.

I concur.

Not to nitpick, but...if memory serves, in JL Davis' article on the "Accidental S&G" one of the things that makes it an S&G (as opposed to a brass Navy) is the absence of any roll engraving on the cylinder.

You are absolutely right, Captainkirk. S&Gs being made in the Confederation and having nothing to do with Colt (except for nicking the shape and action of the 1851 Navy), they did not bear any engraving on their cylinders, not anywhere else.
The problem is a "brass Navy" never existed either. Neither did a Navy ever be made in 44 caliber, although a great many are sold nowadays.
So we might as well call them "S&G with engraved cylinders". ;)

Well, I have to chime in here.

Are we talking about replicas that closely approximate the originals or?

For example:

I have a Pietta 1851 Navy Steel Frame Octagon .36 Round TG (date code [CM] 2014) and a Pietta Griswold & Gunnison Brass Frame Part Octagon/Part round .36 Round TG (date code [CN] 2015). I also have a Pietta Squareback TG for the 1851 Navy only.

With these two pistols I can create 5 replica historical pistols and (at least!) 9 more "fantasy" pistols, considering the different grip/backstrap/TG configurations. All parts are interchangeable except that the G&G TG , backstrap, and grip are much more like the original Colt configuration than the respective Pietta 1851 "tail" configuration parts, and those grip parts do not interchange within the grip units, if one follows my mindset.

To wit (all Pietta .36):

1851 Navy Second Model Squareback TG

1851 Navy Third Model Round TG

Griswold & Gunnison

Leech & Rigdon

Schneider & Glassick

The other combinations are fantasies.

My favorite fantasy is the 1851 Navy Steel Squareback TG Dragoon Barrel: the ultimate 1851 Navy Dragoon .36. Wish the L&R had a Squareback TG.

Jim





We have met the enemy, and they is us. Pogo