colt banner

Author Topic: Model '94 .38-55  (Read 1200 times)

Offline LonesomePigeon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 586
  • Newbie
    • View Profile
Re: Model '94 .38-55
« Reply #15 on: February 22, 2019, 07:02:03 AM »
Thanks!

Offline scooby

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1271
  • Newbie
    • View Profile
Re: Model '94 .38-55
« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2019, 05:50:45 PM »
You are very welcome. Let me know what you find.

Offline LonesomePigeon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 586
  • Newbie
    • View Profile
Re: Model '94 .38-55
« Reply #17 on: February 24, 2019, 07:41:43 PM »
I fired the '94 using lead bullets cast from the Marlin .38-55 loading tool and Starline long brass. I made 3 rounds entirely with the loading tool. I also found an old set of RCBS .38-55 dies at a local gun shop and I made 5 rounds with that.

Accuracy was poor but it was just a test run. The thing that bothered me was I did indeed get some primers backing out.

Offline scooby

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1271
  • Newbie
    • View Profile
Re: Model '94 .38-55
« Reply #18 on: February 25, 2019, 01:46:52 AM »
Were you using black or smokeless?

Primers backing out is common with lever actions. It is not always a big concern for many shooters. Some of mine do it too, but since I am not seeing any signs of case wear in them, I can chalk it up to loose/worn tolereances of the action, low pressure loads, or rough chambers, rather than a head space issue.

Type in "primers backing out in a 1894 Winchester" on Google and you can get a lot of info about the issue.

Offline LonesomePigeon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 586
  • Newbie
    • View Profile
Re: Model '94 .38-55
« Reply #19 on: February 26, 2019, 08:23:36 AM »
I was using Goex 2F black powder. I used a lightly compressed full case on the ones I made with the Ideal tool and  about 28 grains plus cream of wheat filler in the ones made with the press.


Offline LonesomePigeon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 586
  • Newbie
    • View Profile
Re: Model '94 .38-55
« Reply #20 on: February 26, 2019, 09:05:23 PM »
There sure is a lot of info. I found this method http://www.castbullet.com/misc/hspace.htm wherein you  seat a fired primer into a new brass case by inserting into the chamber and closing the bolt, the bolt then seats the primer and you can see how much the primer sticks out.

Using the method above the primers do stick out about .017 - .020". If I ad the rim thickness of new Starline brass which is about about .059" I got a rough estimate of headspace somewhere between .076 - .079".

I also found this guy, Winchester Bob's Gun Shop http://www.gun-parts.com/winchesterrifle/ and he sells an Oversize Lock Bolt that is .010" oversize for $60.

Do you think I should buy the Oversize Lock Bolt? Would it be very hard to install?

Offline LonesomePigeon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 586
  • Newbie
    • View Profile
Re: Model '94 .38-55
« Reply #21 on: March 07, 2019, 09:13:25 PM »
Got around to slugging the bore on my '94.

I took a pure lead bullet made with the Ideal loading tool, these bullets drop at .377".

I ran it through the sizer which is on the Ideal tool, this sized the bullet to .375".

Then I lubed the bore with Ballistol and lubed the bullet with beeswax/lambfat.

The bullet could be easily pressed into the bore with just my fingers. There was some resistance but it was minimal.

Once the bullet was started in the bore I used a rubber mallet and a 6" section of dowel to tap it down the bore. Then I added another 6" section of dowel to tap it further. Once the bullet was 12" down the bore it was going down so easy I just used a long section of dowel to push it all the way through without even needing to use the mallet.

When the bullet was out I measured it and it was still .375" and only showed minimal tracings of the rifling.

Thus it would appear that the .375" bullets are not large enough in diameter to fully engage the rifling all the way to the bottom of the grooves.

Offline Hawg

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2120
  • Now you went and done it!!!
    • View Profile
Re: Model '94 .38-55
« Reply #22 on: March 07, 2019, 09:22:03 PM »
Try one at .377
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and tasteth good with ketchup.

Offline scooby

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1271
  • Newbie
    • View Profile
Re: Model '94 .38-55
« Reply #23 on: March 12, 2019, 06:46:03 PM »
Yep, you need a bigger diameter to start with. As hawg says, try slugging with the bullet as cast at .377. Or better yet, drive a .380 round ball down the bore.

Not sure if I know enough about the primer/headspace issue to reccomend a replacement bolt.

If you are comfortable and have some knowledge about tearing down a Winchester 1894 or 1892, it is not too difficult at all. It can be a bit taxing the first time though. There are a few specifics that if followed make it easier.

Next time you shoot it, try 3f and place a fiber wad between the powder and the bullet base.

And if you were shooting pure lead the first time, you might try an alloy bullet next.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2019, 05:22:14 AM by scooby »

Offline Hawg

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2120
  • Now you went and done it!!!
    • View Profile
Re: Model '94 .38-55
« Reply #24 on: March 12, 2019, 11:33:20 PM »
What Scoob said. An alloy bullet will drop from the mold bigger than a pure lead bullet.
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and tasteth good with ketchup.

Offline LonesomePigeon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 586
  • Newbie
    • View Profile
Re: Model '94 .38-55
« Reply #25 on: March 14, 2019, 04:04:42 PM »
Thanks for the advice. There is a gun show this weekend and I think I am going to look for and old Winchester mold. Last time I was there I saw some but had no use for them. I will probably end up taking the gun to a local gunsmith and see what he says about the headspace issue.

Offline bigted

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 399
  • when all is said ... more will be said then done.
    • View Profile
Re: Model '94 .38-55
« Reply #26 on: April 05, 2019, 11:19:34 AM »
Lonesom, the 38-55's originally were 38 cal. They will go from .380 to some as big as .386. Take a .454 soft lead ball and use good red auto grease, grease the bore heavily and the ball. Set it on the crown and using a brass hammer, tap it into your barrel. Using a drift smaller then the bore, start it down the barrel. Now drive it thru to the breech ... will not take much to drive it on through.

Betcha you find a slightly oversize groove diameter [ top of the lands engraved on the PURE lead slug.
BIGTED

Offline LonesomePigeon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 586
  • Newbie
    • View Profile
Re: Model '94 .38-55
« Reply #27 on: April 06, 2019, 09:33:12 PM »
I will do that bigted. Actually I have a .424 round ball mold so I will cast a pure lead ball with that, it should be easier than a .454 yet still work. I have called a local gunsmith but he has not called me back yet. If it comes down to it I would be willing to rebarrel this rifle. Not sure whether a rebarrel would be preferable to relining. At least with I rebarrel I guess I could keep the original barrel.

Offline LonesomePigeon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 586
  • Newbie
    • View Profile
Re: Model '94 .38-55
« Reply #28 on: October 08, 2019, 02:15:23 PM »
Hello again. I ended up sending the gun to a local gunsmith and he said it needs an oversize lock bolt. Right now we are waiting on the part but I get the feeling he's put me on the back burner. Maybe if I can find the part it will help move things forward. Does anybody know where you can get oversize lock bolts?

I checked a place called Homestead parts but they list them as out of stock. Anyplace else?

Offline mazo kid

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2285
  • Newbie
    • View Profile
Re: Model '94 .38-55
« Reply #29 on: October 12, 2019, 09:16:59 AM »
Starline brass has thinner neck? I disagree on that point.
http://www.shilohrifle.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=21352&sid=86463f6987267cb194b26ee7e1dc872c
We use Win. brass in 45-70/45-90 rounds as it holds more powder (thinner case wall) than other brass. Also strange that the chamber seems to swage the bullet when the bore is much bigger.