colt banner

Author Topic: The George Todd Revolver  (Read 220 times)

Offline sourdough

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 734
  • Newbie
    • View Profile
The George Todd Revolver
« on: November 15, 2019, 01:40:49 PM »
I am looking for additional information on this gun. George (H.) Todd (not to be confused with George M. Todd who served with Quantrill) was a small gunmaker in Austin TX from 1856-1861 and produced copies of the Colt 1851 Navy .36 prior to the ACW (1857-1861). My information about him and his guns is relegated to Flayderman's Guide, "Confederate Handguns" (Albaugh, et al, 1963), and "Confederate Arms (Albaugh, et al, 1957).

Accordingly, Todd produced both octagonal and part round/part octagonal barrel models. Both Flayderman and Albaugh state the the revolvers were marked "GEORGE TODD" and/or "GEORGE TODD, AUSTIN" on the right side of the frame and/or the top flat of the barrel.

Flayderman scan:



I believe this one could possibly be a real Todd revolver, but I cannot find any reference to it after the 2007 auction, where it did not sell. There is a problem with the trigger position, also.

https://www.icollector.com/The-Most-Rare-Confederate-Revolver-Ever-Made-A_i6969264
 


I believe this one to be a spurious Italian defarbed repro, mainly because of the incorrect stamping ("GEO. TODD") on the right side of the frame, the stop slot approaches, and the wrong trigger guard. It is listed at $37,500.

https://garyhendershott.net/online-catalog2.php



Let me be clear about my intentions with my post. The Todd revolver is possibly more scarce than the three known documented specimens of the Schneider & Glassick revolver. I want to create a replica of a Todd for display purposes only. I want to use a new Uberti Leech & Rigdon (with the part round/part octagonal barrel) as it does not have all of the Pietta billboards on the barrel. Uberti stamps their name and "BP Only" rollmark on the underside of the barrel, hidden until one drops the load lever, which will not be removed so as to not be confused with an original. Their date stamp, serial number, and Italian proof marks are primarily confined to the bottom of the frame/barrel lug which can be easily removed. The load aperture on the right side of the barrel lug is a V-notch which can be opened up accordingly, and the cylinder can be sanded down just enough to remove any engraving and decrease the size of the stop slot approaches. I also have brass backstrap that does not have the "divot" on the bottom for a shoulder stock, and the TG shape can judiciously be reshaped. I can defarb/antique it to look like a very close facsimile of the real deal.

I don't think even Lodgewood would take this project on.

My problem is that there are very few photos of the originals. The biggest stumbling block is the correct wording/location/orientation/font of an original, on both the frame and top of the barrel.

This is from William A. Albaugh's book "Confederate Arms" (1957) and is the best photo I have. Note the fairly square trigger guard and the lack of prominent stop slot approaches:



Carroll C. Holloway was a very well respected member of the Texas Gun Collectors Association.

I do not want to rely upon any unsubstantiated revolver.

Any information/photos/links will be much appreciated.

Regards,

Jim
« Last Edit: November 15, 2019, 03:45:37 PM by sourdough »

Offline G Dog

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 791
    • View Profile
Re: The George Todd Revolver
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2019, 01:58:34 PM »
Sourdough, you’re engaged in a great enterprise here with your Todd research.  It is of much interest and valuable.
"A man cannot have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition".
                              -Rudyard Kipling

"Nietzsche is dead".
                              -  God

Offline sourdough

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 734
  • Newbie
    • View Profile
Re: The George Todd Revolver
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2019, 03:37:04 PM »
Sourdough, you’re engaged in a great enterprise here with your Todd research.  It is of much interest and valuable.

I think I need to give you and other interested folks some additional info about what I have learned, and some of it is not pretty.

I have posted this on 4 forums so far, seeking info. Sorry, but CC was the last one, and the only reason for that is so I could try to get my ducks in a row before presenting my inquiry.

I have been in contact (a bit) with one reliable guy on the CWT forum (Civil War Talk) who professes to know a bit about at least one of the guns I have shown, but he won't post his info on the site; rather, he sent me his email address several days ago, I immediately replied, and so far no response.

The Todd marked "GEO. TODD" on the right side of the frame was an offering from Gary Hendershott. He also offered a Mitchell & Tyler revolver nearly 2 years ago. I asked him for any provenance about this gun, explained that Mitchell & Tyler made the ivory grip and not the gun, and after a couple of conversations Gary told me that he would sue me for slander if I went any further with my questions.

The Mitchell & Tyler:



I believe Todd guns as seen online are a very touchy subject.

I have also written to the Texas Gun Collectors Association concerning any information about Carroll C. Holloway's Todd, but no answer so far.

At this point I am at a standstill.

Regards,

Jim