1858banner

Author Topic: Original 1871-72 Open Top  (Read 242 times)

Offline AntiqueSledMan

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 266
  • Newbie
    • View Profile
Original 1871-72 Open Top
« on: June 19, 2021, 07:00:14 AM »
Hello Guys,

Does anyone have the dimensions for an Original 1871-72 Open Top cylinder?
I would like to know what the diameter for a .44 cal is.

AntiqueSledMan.

Offline Hawg

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3343
  • Now you went and done it!!!
    • View Profile
Re: Original 1871-72 Open Top
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2021, 09:43:28 AM »
I can't help with dimensions but they were all .44 rimfire.
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and tasteth good with ketchup.

Offline AntiqueSledMan

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 266
  • Newbie
    • View Profile
Re: Original 1871-72 Open Top
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2021, 04:36:38 PM »
Hello Hawg,


Yes, I realize they were 44 Henry, I think I found the diameter 1.595".
Now I'm trying to find out Center of Chamber to Center of Cylinder.
I don't realize why they didn't go center fire 44 Colt.

AntiqueSledMan.

Offline Hawg

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3343
  • Now you went and done it!!!
    • View Profile
Re: Original 1871-72 Open Top
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2021, 05:14:12 PM »
Hello Hawg,


Yes, I realize they were 44 Henry, I think I found the diameter 1.595".
Now I'm trying to find out Center of Chamber to Center of Cylinder.
I don't realize why they didn't go center fire 44 Colt.

AntiqueSledMan.

You would have to ask Charles Richards that. While researching this I found out the .44 centerfire was first made in 1871 for the open tops but all of the references to the 1871-1872 open tops say .44 rimfire.  ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and tasteth good with ketchup.

Offline Gray Fox

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 84
  • Newbie
    • View Profile
Re: Original 1871-72 Open Top
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2021, 07:35:55 PM »
I thought S&W developed the .44 centerfire from its outside lubed heeled .44 cartridge because both the US Army and the Russsian Gov't. wanted it.  Did Colt develop another .44 centerfire cartridge?  Are we talking about the .44 Colt cartridge?  GF

Offline Gray Fox

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 84
  • Newbie
    • View Profile
Re: Original 1871-72 Open Top
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2021, 07:43:25 PM »
Sorry guys, I got my cartridge history crossed up.  What I was talking about was S&W's response to the Army and the Czar's buyers wanting S&W's existing centerfire, heeled outside lubed .44 cartridge changed to a full diameter inside lubed cartridge.  Sorry for any confusion my clogged mind brought to the discussion.  GF

Offline AntiqueSledMan

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 266
  • Newbie
    • View Profile
Re: Original 1871-72 Open Top
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2021, 03:44:17 AM »
Hey Hawg,

I found they were manufactured for the .44 Henry and both .38 RF & CF (smaller rigs).
Info is sketchy, but some dimensions of the cylinder & frame are listed in
"A Study of Colt Conversions and Other Percussion Revolvers".
On the .44 calibers, I have read the frame was the same as the 1860, but without the water table.
They would had to move the position of the chamber out at least 0.030" from center to get the rim fire cases to fit.
This would require a different barrel as the distance from arbor to bore has been changed, which they did use a different barrel.
One would think it would have been easier to go with the .44 Colt, making a Long Cylinder type instead.
They did extend the front of the cylinder so the flash from firing didn't spray directly on the arbor.
Somebody might chime in who has access to an original, we might discover they're thoughts yet.

AntiqueSledMan.

Offline Hawg

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3343
  • Now you went and done it!!!
    • View Profile
Re: Original 1871-72 Open Top
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2021, 06:02:56 AM »
I was talking about the .44 centerfire. The Henry never was chambered for centerfire. I read someplace it was designed especially for the open tops. The 72 open top was an improvement on the Richards Mason. They were a little bigger than the RM. Why they did what they did is perplexing. They offered the 72 for military trials in 73 but the military wanted a .45 so Richards went to work and designed the 1873 Colt and the 72 open top died after a year of production.
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and tasteth good with ketchup.

Offline AntiqueSledMan

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 266
  • Newbie
    • View Profile
Re: Original 1871-72 Open Top
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2021, 11:44:19 AM »
Oh Hawg,

The 1866 was chambered for the .44 Henry Center Fire Flat.
Apparently late in production for export to Brazil.

According to "A study of Colt Conversions and other Percussion Revolvers"
the Army insisted on center fire ammunition, so Colt converted the 1860 for them in 44 Martin (later called 44 Colt).
It can be downloaded here, a good read.

https://it.2lib.org/book/1281189/64ae87?dsource=recommend

I guess the main reason the 1871-72 was chambered in 44 Henry was because you could get ammo almost anywhere.
All the 44 Colt ammo was loaded for military use.
I would still like to know just what the measurements are.

AntiqueSledMan.


Offline Hawg

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3343
  • Now you went and done it!!!
    • View Profile
Re: Original 1871-72 Open Top
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2021, 03:09:55 PM »
Yeah you're right about the 66. Later models were chambered for the centerfire version. I forgot about that.
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and tasteth good with ketchup.