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Colt Revolvers => Colt Cousins => Schneider & Glassick => Topic started by: Ringo on January 16, 2016, 07:17:58 AM

Title: My S&Gs
Post by: Ringo on January 16, 2016, 07:17:58 AM
Although only few originals were ever made, the Schneider and Glassick replicas may be the most numerous made.
Two of them have ended up in my collection, and hopefully I will get some more in a not too far future.
Both of my S&Gs are GLBs. One is plain and one is engraved.

The plain one is also the first one I got, and the oldest one. It was made in 1968, 47 years ago, but to me it looks as if it were new.
(http://i68.servimg.com/u/f68/17/05/26/73/sg_glb10.jpg)(http://i68.servimg.com/u/f68/17/05/26/73/sg_glb11.jpg)
Apart from the proofmarks and the caliber marking, the barrel only bears the "EIG Navy" marking. No "Black Powder only" or "made in Italy".
(http://i68.servimg.com/u/f68/17/05/26/73/sg_glb12.jpg)
Either "Italy" and the EIG logo were lightly stamped on the butt or a former owner tried to erase them :
(http://i68.servimg.com/u/f68/17/05/26/73/sg_glb13.jpg)
The GLB logo and serial number are stamped under the frame and the rear part of the barrel :
(http://i68.servimg.com/u/f68/17/05/26/73/sg_glb14.jpg)

The engraved one joined its elder just before Christmas. It was made in 1969, so it is one year younger than the other one, and only 46 years old. One might believe it's just out of the factory though :
(http://i68.servimg.com/u/f68/17/05/26/73/sg_glb15.jpg)(http://i68.servimg.com/u/f68/17/05/26/73/sg_glb16.jpg)
No "EIG Navy" on the top of the barrel this time, neither "black powder only" or anything else than proofmarks and a nice engraving :
(http://i68.servimg.com/u/f68/17/05/26/73/sg_glb17.jpg)(http://i68.servimg.com/u/f68/17/05/26/73/sg_glb19.jpg)
... even the loading lever bears an engraving too...
(http://i68.servimg.com/u/f68/17/05/26/73/sg_glb20.jpg)
... just as the frame and the cylinder...
(http://i68.servimg.com/u/f68/17/05/26/73/sg_glb21.jpg)
... and the shield and the backstrap...
(http://i68.servimg.com/u/f68/17/05/26/73/sg_glb22.jpg)
... and the trigger guard too...
(http://i68.servimg.com/u/f68/17/05/26/73/sg_glb23.jpg)
... whereas the butt only carries the german importer's mark "Hege".
(http://i68.servimg.com/u/f68/17/05/26/73/sg_glb24.jpg)

I must say I really like my GLBs. In fact I like them so much that I would be glad to add to my collection one from each year they have been made, that is from 1963 to 1971. That makes another 7 to track and find.  L@.
Title: Re: My S&Gs
Post by: Bishop Creek on January 16, 2016, 08:41:36 AM
Interesting. Your first revolver pictured is identical the first cap and ball revolver I ever bought back in 1969. At the time, I didn't know that I had a Schneider and Glassick replica, I just thought it was a .36 Navy. It was stolen from me back in the mid 1970s.

(http://i68.servimg.com/u/f68/17/05/26/73/sg_glb10.jpg)
Title: Re: My S&Gs
Post by: ehvhram on January 16, 2016, 08:56:43 AM
Both look great but I really like the engraved one.
Title: Re: My S&Gs
Post by: Fingers McGee on January 16, 2016, 09:02:47 AM
Very nice Ringo.  The engraved one is especially nice. notice how thin and curved the trigger is.  None of the past, or current makers us a trigger shaped like that that I have found..
Title: Re: My S&Gs
Post by: Ringo on January 16, 2016, 10:27:56 AM
Thanks, Gentlemen !
Interesting. Your first revolver pictured is identical the first cap and ball revolver I ever bought back in 1969. At the time, I didn't know that I had a Schneider and Glassick replica, I just thought it was a .36 Navy. It was stolen from me back in the mid 1970s.
Sorry to read that your gun was stolen from you. Hopefully it did not cross the Atlantic to end up in my home...  L@J
At the time when you bought it was not known as a Schneider & Glassick. It was plainly a brass framed 1851, which of course was not correct historically, but was cheaper to make. In fact, it should not be called a S&G at all, as so few original S&G were ever made, and they were not all brassers, but everyone found it more convenient to call them S&Gs than "brass framed 1851 Navy Colts". ::)
Title: Re: My S&Gs
Post by: Hawg on January 16, 2016, 10:41:12 AM
Calling them S&G's is a lot more accurate than calling them brass navies.
Title: Re: My S&Gs
Post by: Ringo on January 16, 2016, 01:03:57 PM
Calling them S&G's is a lot more accurate than calling them brass navies.
I would say yes and no.
Yes, definitely, because there has ever been any such thing as a brass framed Colt.
No, because out of the 3 officially identified surviving Schneider & Glassicks, only 2 have a brass frame and octagon barrel, the other one having an iron frame and a round barrel. For all we know, most S&G may very well have been round barreled and iron framed. After all, as far as we know, only 20 to 50 were ever made.
So, in my point of view, these revolvers are now called Schneider & Glassick more out of shere convenience than of accuracy.  ::)
Title: Re: My S&Gs
Post by: Hawg on January 16, 2016, 01:22:25 PM
Calling them S&G's is a lot more accurate than calling them brass navies.
I would say yes and no.
Yes, definitely, because there has ever been any such thing as a brass framed Colt.
No, because out of the 3 officially identified surviving Schneider & Glassicks, only 2 have a brass frame and octagon barrel, the other one having an iron frame and a round barrel. For all we know, most S&G may very well have been round barreled and iron framed. After all, as far as we know, only 20 to 50 were ever made.
So, in my point of view, these revolvers are now called Schneider & Glassick more out of shere convenience than of accuracy.  ::)

Two out of three is a majority. They're S&G's. A lot more historical provenance there than a brass 51. (7&
Title: Re: My S&Gs
Post by: sourdough on January 16, 2016, 01:27:20 PM
This link has been posted before, but just thought it would be interesting here.

http://rprca.tripod.com/Schneider.html

I have a new one by Pietta created from an 2014 1851 Navy barrel and the balance from a 2015 Griswold & Gunnison.

Jim
Title: Re: My S&Gs
Post by: Ringo on January 16, 2016, 01:43:20 PM
Two out of three is a majority. (7&
Hard to refute that ! Anyway, they've been called Schneider and Glassick for quite some time now, so Schneider and Glassick they are.  ;)
Title: Re: My S&Gs
Post by: Ringo on January 16, 2016, 01:44:26 PM
This link has been posted before, but just thought it would be interesting here.

http://rprca.tripod.com/Schneider.html

I have a new one by Pietta created from an 2014 1851 Navy barrel and the balance from a 2015 Griswold & Gunnison.

Jim
By the way, does anyone kow how is Dr Davis doing ? I read somewhere he was not too well.
Title: Re: My S&Gs
Post by: Bishop Creek on January 16, 2016, 01:57:15 PM
Quote
Sorry to read that your gun was stolen from you. Hopefully it did not cross the Atlantic to end up in my home...  L@J
At the time when you bought it was not known as a Schneider & Glassick. It was plainly a brass framed 1851, which of course was not correct historically, but was cheaper to make. In fact, it should not be called a S&G at all, as so few original S&G were ever made, and they were not all brassers, but everyone found it more convenient to call them S&Gs than "brass framed 1851 Navy Colts". ::)

My daughter lived in France for nearly a year while attending university and I had her look all over the place for my stolen pistol, but she never came across it, so I guess your revolver isn't my old one.  :)
Title: Re: My S&Gs
Post by: sourdough on January 16, 2016, 02:11:20 PM
This link has been posted before, but just thought it would be interesting here.

http://rprca.tripod.com/Schneider.html

I have a new one by Pietta created from an 2014 1851 Navy barrel and the balance from a 2015 Griswold & Gunnison.

Jim
By the way, does anyone kow how is Dr Davis doing ? I read somewhere he was not too well.

I got a short email from him several months ago. He is 81 and told me his health was deteriorating, but did not go into detail.

Jim
Title: Re: My S&Gs
Post by: Fingers McGee on January 16, 2016, 04:27:40 PM
I got a short email from him several months ago. He is 81 and told me his health was deteriorating, but did not go into detail.

Jim

I got an email from Dr. Davis first part of November & and a short note in December.  We just talked guns & the fact that he wasn't as active as he used to be.  I know he's been doing poorly; but we didn't discuss that.

Ken
Title: Re: My S&Gs
Post by: sourdough on January 16, 2016, 05:25:05 PM
I would say yes and no.
Yes, definitely, because there has ever been any such thing as a brass framed Colt.
No, because out of the 3 officially identified surviving Schneider & Glassicks, only 2 have a brass frame and octagon barrel, the other one having an iron frame and a round barrel. For all we know, most S&G may very well have been round barreled and iron framed. After all, as far as we know, only 20 to 50 were ever made.
So, in my point of view, these revolvers are now called Schneider & Glassick more out of sheer convenience than of accuracy.  ::)

Does anyone have distinct information about the S&G iron frame "anomaly"? I cannot find any info as to who owns it, where it is, et al.

I have read about the iron frame part octagon, part round barrel S&G. My mind wanders to think that it is a very accurate description of a Leech and Rigdon.

http://jamesdjulia.com/item/2115-358/

I would love to have more info and a pic of the iron frame round barrel S&G.

Jim



Title: Re: My S&Gs
Post by: Ringo on January 17, 2016, 01:20:03 AM
Does anyone have distinct information about the S&G iron frame "anomaly"? I cannot find any info as to who owns it, where it is, et al.

I have read about the iron frame part octagon, part round barrel S&G. My mind wanders to think that it is a very accurate description of a Leech and Rigdon.

I would love to have more info and a pic of the iron frame round barrel S&G.

Jim
I guess all the info one can find about that specimen is from Albaugh, Bennet and Simmons's classic "Confederate Handguns". The photo bears "courtesy Edward N. Simmons", so I would believe the revolver was in Mr Simmons' collection at the time (1963).
(http://i68.servimg.com/u/f68/17/05/26/73/scan_210.jpg)
The book also holds descriptions of several other revolvers which would deserve to be replicated too : Tucker & Sherrard (a replica was made by Uberti years ago, not too faithful to the original if I recall correctly), George Todd, Thomas W Cofer, ...
I seem to recall that "Augusta Machine Works" has been dismissed as an arms maker, but I am not too sure about that. Would anyone be able to confirm or correct ?
Title: Re: My S&Gs
Post by: sourdough on January 17, 2016, 05:40:54 AM
Thanks, Ringo!

http://www.littlegun.info/arme%20americaine/revolver%20confedere/a%20revolver%20confedere%20augusta%20gb.htm
Title: Re: My S&Gs
Post by: Ringo on January 17, 2016, 05:51:31 AM
... and thanks, Sourdough !
Title: Re: My S&Gs
Post by: Fingers McGee on January 17, 2016, 10:08:18 AM
Here are some pictures I downloaded in 2008 of an Augusta marked revolver - IIRC it was from a RIA Auction - but not absolutely sure though.
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c86/fingersmcgee/AugustaRevolver2.jpg)
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c86/fingersmcgee/AugustaRevolver1.jpg)
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c86/fingersmcgee/Augusta%20Revolver%203_zpsuzhatdhg.jpg)

These pictures are what I used to make my copies:

(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c86/fingersmcgee/DSCN0494.jpg)
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c86/fingersmcgee/DSCN0499.jpg)
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c86/fingersmcgee/DSCN0501.jpg)
Title: Re: My S&Gs
Post by: Captainkirk on January 17, 2016, 08:02:23 PM
Very nice likenesses, Fingers! And I love your S&G's, Ringo. Here's mine. I didn't have the heart to defarb it.
(http://i785.photobucket.com/albums/yy140/Buellosaurusrex/Schneider%20and%20Glassick/100_0343.jpg)

If'n ya want, you can read the whole story here via this link:

http://blackpowdersmoke.com/colt/index.php?topic=96.0
Title: Re: My S&Gs
Post by: Ringo on January 18, 2016, 02:24:41 AM
Here are some pictures I downloaded in 2008 of an Augusta marked revolver - IIRC it was from a RIA Auction - but not absolutely sure though.
The revolver is marked Augusta, but also C.H. Rigdon. Another one bearing the same markings, but displaying a short barrel (5"), is described in Albaugh and Steuart's book "the original Confederate Colt". It also has 12 stops like the one you show. After dissolving his partnership with Leech, Rigdon relocated in Augusta and went on producing revolvers under the same contract with the Confederation. These revolvers were therefore made in Augusta, but not by the Augusta Machine Works.
You will find a very informative article about Leech & Rigdon, Rigdon & Ainsley, etc... on the American Society of Arms Collectors site : http://americansocietyofarmscollectors.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Leech-and-Rigdon-Confederate-revolvers-B072_Meredith.pdf
The gentleman who wrote it, Edward J. Meredith, apparently owns one the Augusta made Rigdons, which he displays in the last pictures featured.

These pictures are what I used to make my copies
As far as I can see, you used a Leech & Rigdon replica, the blueing of which you aged a bit after removing the italian markings and stamping the CH Rigdon ones, and adding 6 new stops between the originals. I for one thing would not know how to add these stops and stampings, and for another thing would not dare doing these changes on a L&R. They are so hard to find over here. As you know, I had to have the barrel of a 1851 turned and to file off the cylinder engraving to make mine.
The result you obtained is great. I'd really like to add one such to my collection.

Very nice likenesses, Fingers! And I love your S&G's, Ringo. Here's mine. I didn't have the heart to defarb it.
You already did a good job cleaning it and reviving it. I usually do not defarb my replicas either. Most are more than 40 years old, and their markings, whether from the italian maker or the american importer, are really not too prominent. Furthermore, like Dr Jim Davis, I feel they are collectible in themselves. So I just keep them as they are. I usually only give them a good thorough cleaning inside ad outside. Regarding my L&R and my Dance, I had to do something myself, as I was not able to find replicas although I had been looking for them high and low for ages. The L&R was originally a Rigarmi 1851, and I never found another since. So every now and then I tell myself I should never have used it, just kept it in my collection and do the job on a Pietta.
Title: Re: My S&Gs
Post by: Fingers McGee on January 18, 2016, 09:51:44 AM
The finish on the Rigdons was aged to approximate 10 years wear/use after manufacture.  I had a pair of Uberti L&Rs done about 5 years ago to be used in CAS matches; not just the one in the pictures.  One was made in1973 and the other in 2007.  Other than the nipple threads, they are identical.  They were defarbed of markings that are visible.  The manufacturer and date code still exists under the loading lever so they cant be passed off as originals.  They both came with blank cylinders. 

I've got the Confederate Colt book, along with a half dozen others that reference the Confederate pistols made during the war. 





 
Title: Re: My S&Gs
Post by: Rcampb6131 on January 18, 2016, 11:33:15 AM
Here are my two Schneider & Glassicks.  The top one was made in 1978 by Fusav di & Baronio.  The bottom one was made in 1975 by Pierino Ruschetta.

RC
Title: Re: My S&Gs
Post by: Ringo on January 18, 2016, 12:13:16 PM
Hello Semester,
Did you buy the Fusav di Bini & Baronio from Prairie Dawg ? It is really a rarity. I have never seen that brand anywhere else. Would you please post some more pictures, including the makers marking ?
I would be glad to see more photos of your PR too, including the marking on the butt.
Although they both are S&G, the number of differences between the two is striking.  (jh

Title: Re: My S&Gs
Post by: Captainkirk on January 18, 2016, 12:23:30 PM
Not to nitpick, but...if memory serves, in JL Davis' article on the "Accidental S&G" one of the things that makes it an S&G (as opposed to a brass Navy) is the absence of any roil engraving on the cylinder.
That is why I jumped on my ASM when I saw it...it was the first Navy brasser I had seen with a plain cylinder in cal. 36

(http://i785.photobucket.com/albums/yy140/Buellosaurusrex/Schneider%20and%20Glassick/100_0341.jpg)

(http://i785.photobucket.com/albums/yy140/Buellosaurusrex/Schneider%20and%20Glassick/100_0340.jpg)
Title: Re: My S&Gs
Post by: Rcampb6131 on January 18, 2016, 01:25:25 PM
Ringo,

Here is the marking for the Fusav di Bini & Baronio.


RC
Title: Re: My S&Gs
Post by: Rcampb6131 on January 18, 2016, 01:27:09 PM
Ringo,
Here is the Pierino Ruschetta.
Title: Re: My S&Gs
Post by: Ringo on January 18, 2016, 04:18:47 PM
Thanks, Semester. It is the first time I ever see a Fusav di Bini & Baronio. You really have got yourself a rarity.
As for the Pierino Ruschetta, it appears it might be rather a "Riva Esterina". At least that is what the Gardone proofhouse told me when I asked them about the PR logo. Riva Esterina was an italian firm which also used the trademark Dart and whose arms where mainly imported in the U.S.A. by FIE.
Title: Re: My S&Gs
Post by: Ringo on January 18, 2016, 04:24:10 PM
Not to nitpick, but...if memory serves, in JL Davis' article on the "Accidental S&G" one of the things that makes it an S&G (as opposed to a brass Navy) is the absence of any roil engraving on the cylinder.
You are absolutely right, Captainkirk. S&Gs being made in the Confederation and having nothing to do with Colt (except for nicking the shape and action of the 1851 Navy), they did not bear any engraving on their cylinders, not anywhere else.
The problem is a "brass Navy" never existed either. Neither did a Navy ever be made in 44 caliber, although a great many are sold nowadays.
So we might as well call them "S&G with engraved cylinders". ;)
Title: Re: My S&Gs
Post by: sourdough on January 18, 2016, 06:26:19 PM
Thanks, Semester. It is the first time I ever see a Fusav di Bini & Baronio. You really have got yourself a rarity.
As for the Pierino Ruschetta, it appears it might be rather a "Riva Esterina". At least that is what the Gardone proofhouse told me when I asked them about the PR logo. Riva Esterina was an italian firm which also used the trademark Dart and whose arms where mainly imported in the U.S.A. by FIE.

I concur.

Not to nitpick, but...if memory serves, in JL Davis' article on the "Accidental S&G" one of the things that makes it an S&G (as opposed to a brass Navy) is the absence of any roll engraving on the cylinder.

You are absolutely right, Captainkirk. S&Gs being made in the Confederation and having nothing to do with Colt (except for nicking the shape and action of the 1851 Navy), they did not bear any engraving on their cylinders, not anywhere else.
The problem is a "brass Navy" never existed either. Neither did a Navy ever be made in 44 caliber, although a great many are sold nowadays.
So we might as well call them "S&G with engraved cylinders". ;)

Well, I have to chime in here.

Are we talking about replicas that closely approximate the originals or?

For example:

I have a Pietta 1851 Navy Steel Frame Octagon .36 Round TG (date code [CM] 2014) and a Pietta Griswold & Gunnison Brass Frame Part Octagon/Part round .36 Round TG (date code [CN] 2015). I also have a Pietta Squareback TG for the 1851 Navy only.

With these two pistols I can create 5 replica historical pistols and (at least!) 9 more "fantasy" pistols, considering the different grip/backstrap/TG configurations. All parts are interchangeable except that the G&G TG , backstrap, and grip are much more like the original Colt configuration than the respective Pietta 1851 "tail" configuration parts, and those grip parts do not interchange within the grip units, if one follows my mindset.

To wit (all Pietta .36):

1851 Navy Second Model Squareback TG

1851 Navy Third Model Round TG

Griswold & Gunnison

Leech & Rigdon

Schneider & Glassick

The other combinations are fantasies.

My favorite fantasy is the 1851 Navy Steel Squareback TG Dragoon Barrel: the ultimate 1851 Navy Dragoon .36. Wish the L&R had a Squareback TG.

Jim





Title: Re: My S&Gs
Post by: Captainkirk on January 18, 2016, 08:38:18 PM
By George, I do b'lieve this here be one....

http://www.armslist.com/posts/5059332/maryland-muzzle-loaders-for-sale--cva-1861-navy--36-cal-replica

Just listed today, boys!
Title: Re: My S&Gs
Post by: Hawg on January 18, 2016, 08:41:42 PM
The back of that grip looks a little too square. May just be camera angle tho. I turned down one of those NIB with both CVA and Navy Arms logo's several years ago for 100 bucks.
Title: Re: My S&Gs
Post by: Captainkirk on January 18, 2016, 08:44:54 PM
The back of that grip looks a little too square. May just be camera angle tho.
Could be it needs a bit of 'profiling'. I've never owned a bad CVA gun. Probably why I sold them all...I could expect (and got) more money out of them than your run of the mill repro.
Title: Re: My S&Gs
Post by: sourdough on February 16, 2016, 04:23:07 PM
The back of that grip looks a little too square. May just be camera angle tho. I turned down one of those NIB with both CVA and Navy Arms logo's several years ago for 100 bucks.

For $150 these days, Captainkirk, not a bad deal, IMO. It is correct insofar as the grip/backstrap profile, but it appears to have a lot of material to work with at the frame and backstrap in several directions.

Besides, it is an older replica and those are beginning to become difficult to find these days.

Jim
Title: Re: My S&Gs
Post by: Fingers McGee on February 16, 2016, 04:48:19 PM
The back of that grip looks a little too square. May just be camera angle tho. I turned down one of those NIB with both CVA and Navy Arms logo's several years ago for 100 bucks.

For $150 these days, Captainkirk, not a bad deal, IMO. It is correct insofar as the grip/backstrap profile, but it appears to have a lot of material to work with at the frame and backstrap in several directions.

Besides, it is an older replica and those are beginning to become difficult to find these days.

Jim

It was made by Euroarms.  They were notorious for thick squared off grips.