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Long Guns => Repeating Black Powder Rifles => Winchester => Topic started by: Captainkirk on March 04, 2019, 05:54:36 AM

Title: Get your kicks on Route '66
Post by: Captainkirk on March 04, 2019, 05:54:36 AM
Oh, yes I did... ;)

Put some earnest money down on a Navy Arms Winchester '66 "Yellow Boy" chambered in .44-40 WCF that I stumbled across at the LGS the other day. It's seen some use, and the receiver is well patina'd, nice wood and very tight action. I'm not in a huge hurry to pay it off and take it home as the BP range doesn't open until May (flooding notwithstanding) and it happens to be hovering around at 0 degrees F today in my neck of the woods.
But I just couldn't let this one get away.
Pix and other goodies when they become available.

"They call me mellow yellow"...   L@J
Title: Re: Get your kicks on Route '66
Post by: Hawg on March 04, 2019, 06:36:28 AM
Cool Beans!!!
Title: Re: Get your kicks on Route '66
Post by: Captainkirk on March 04, 2019, 06:42:42 AM
Cool Beans!!!

Thanks! This one has been on my "short list" for a long time. It played a huge role in the Indian wars of the Old West (on both sides) and it happens to be chambered in the best period cartridge (IMHO) for that rifle; .44-40 WCF as opposed to the many other chambering versions out there in .45LC, .357/.38 spl, and others that this gun never originally came chambered in.
Title: Re: Get your kicks on Route '66
Post by: ShotgunDave on March 04, 2019, 08:05:33 AM
Good for you Capt! The 66 is on my short list too. As soon as funds become available, I'll have one too.

Can't wait for your pictures.
Title: Re: Get your kicks on Route '66
Post by: Hawg on March 04, 2019, 08:28:12 AM
Cool Beans!!!

Thanks! This one has been on my "short list" for a long time. It played a huge role in the Indian wars of the Old West (on both sides) and it happens to be chambered in the best period cartridge (IMHO) for that rifle; .44-40 WCF as opposed to the many other chambering versions out there in .45LC, .357/.38 spl, and others that this gun never originally came chambered in.

The only cartridges they were chambered in was the .44 Henry and 44 WCF. They weren't discontinued until 1899.
Title: Re: Get your kicks on Route '66
Post by: Captainkirk on March 04, 2019, 08:41:06 AM
The only cartridges they were chambered in was the .44 Henry and 44 WCF. They weren't discontinued until 1899.

.44 Henry was a rimfire, right?
Title: Re: Get your kicks on Route '66
Post by: tljack on March 04, 2019, 09:28:14 AM
I love the 44-40 in a lever gun! I shoot only black in mine and the bottle neck of this cartridge is enough to keep all the BP crud out of the action. I only have to clean the barrel!
Title: Re: Get your kicks on Route '66
Post by: Hawg on March 04, 2019, 09:32:51 AM
The only cartridges they were chambered in was the .44 Henry and 44 WCF. They weren't discontinued until 1899.

.44 Henry was a rimfire, right?

Yep.
Title: Re: Get your kicks on Route '66
Post by: Captainkirk on March 04, 2019, 12:50:23 PM
Forgot to mention; this is the 'rifle version' with octagon barrel. Really handsome gun.
Title: Re: Get your kicks on Route '66
Post by: mazo kid on March 04, 2019, 01:21:19 PM
Good for you Capt'n. I HAD a Yellow Boy in 44-40 for a while, never did shoot it. It was part of a trade deal that a friend and I  were engaged in. I never got a chance to shoot it, and after a while my friend decided he wanted it back, so another round of deals ensued.
Title: Re: Get your kicks on Route '66
Post by: Captainkirk on March 04, 2019, 01:35:55 PM
Good for you Capt'n. I HAD a Yellow Boy in 44-40 for a while, never did shoot it. It was part of a trade deal that a friend and I  were engaged in. I never got a chance to shoot it, and after a while my friend decided he wanted it back, so another round of deals ensued.

THAT ain't no 'friend'. J*j
Title: Re: Get your kicks on Route '66
Post by: scooby on March 04, 2019, 02:44:29 PM
The 1866 was not chambered in 44 WCF. Rather, it was the 44 Henry Centerfire. These came out toward the end of production and are very rare.
Title: Re: Get your kicks on Route '66
Post by: scooby on March 04, 2019, 02:49:38 PM
Glad to hear you are getting it. It will be very easy to load for with black powder and will make a nice plinker for you. For me, there is something very unique to the toggle link action rifles and they make their own distinct sound when the carrier block drops back down into the bottom of the receiver.
Title: Re: Get your kicks on Route '66
Post by: Hawg on March 04, 2019, 06:01:53 PM
The 1866 was not chambered in 44 WCF. Rather, it was the 44 Henry Centerfire. These came out toward the end of production and are very rare.

I stand sit corrected.
Title: Re: Get your kicks on Route '66
Post by: Dellbert on March 04, 2019, 06:22:24 PM
Glad you got one CK. Happy, Happy, Happy.
Title: Re: Get your kicks on Route '66
Post by: LonesomePigeon on March 07, 2019, 09:25:45 AM
Congrats!
Title: Re: Get your kicks on Route '66
Post by: Captainkirk on April 08, 2019, 10:03:12 AM
Well, now that I've paid this thing off and drug it home like a proud papa bringing home the new baby from the hospital, time for show & tell.

Meet the new kid on the block...Navy Arms Winchester '66 "Yellow Boy" in .44-40 WCF

(https://live.staticflickr.com/7818/40579058083_f2ffc758e8_z.jpg)

Left side view:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/7924/46629509235_d5ebc59132_z.jpg)

Right side with the famous Nelson King loading gate; the patent that turned the problematic Henry design into Winchester's bread and butter.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/7840/46821463634_c6495118a9_z.jpg)

Forearm with brass cap. They also made a version with a blued cap; I think the brass looks better to my eyes:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/7861/47492280132_6e0a44329f_z.jpg)

Buttstock. I can't believe how nice the wood is on this thing!

(https://live.staticflickr.com/7874/46821472854_4b45129a89_z.jpg)

Front sight in the "flipped-down" position...

(https://live.staticflickr.com/7825/47544998851_e1fb94d902_z.jpg)

...and "elevated".

(https://live.staticflickr.com/7899/47492293672_fd2aaaa76f_z.jpg)

Caliber stamp: .44-40 WCF

(https://live.staticflickr.com/7919/32602529917_a97e93046e_z.jpg)

Date code [AD] (1978) and proof marks

(https://live.staticflickr.com/7860/32602531687_926f625b52_z.jpg)

Importer's mark (Navy Arms)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/7856/47492310832_21c665879a_z.jpg)

Tang with rifle model designation

(https://live.staticflickr.com/7919/47545017121_ae7486505c_z.jpg)

The famous (or infamous, depending on your view) "elevator shaft"

(https://live.staticflickr.com/7915/33668318538_1ed4270723_z.jpg)



So, there you have it in all it's glory. Sorry for the lousy pix, will try to get more (better) when time allows.

Title: Re: Get your kicks on Route '66
Post by: mike116 on April 08, 2019, 12:31:58 PM
Very nice Capt.,   Can't wait to hear what you have to say after shooting it.
Title: Re: Get your kicks on Route '66
Post by: ssb73q on April 08, 2019, 03:28:46 PM
Very pretty rifle!

I'm trying to figure out if you're gonna run out of money, space, or your wife's good blessing first, Kirk?  ;)

Regards,
Richard
Title: Re: Get your kicks on Route '66
Post by: Captainkirk on April 09, 2019, 08:11:25 AM
Very pretty rifle!

I'm trying to figure out if you're gonna run out of money, space, or your wife's good blessing first, Kirk?  ;)

Regards,
Richard
My wife knows nothing about this, or the vast majority of my guns. L@J
Title: Re: Get your kicks on Route '66
Post by: ssb73q on April 09, 2019, 09:21:31 AM

My wife knows nothing about this, or the vast majority of my guns. L@J

Hi Kirk, I will pray for you.  K_) K_) K_)

Regards,
Richard
Title: Re: Get your kicks on Route '66
Post by: Captainkirk on April 11, 2019, 12:47:51 PM
Seems like the accumulation of accoutrements is the thorn within the rose bush...LOL!
First off, went to the Bass Pro to see if they had and .44-40 WCF loads. Not only did they not, but they flat out don't carry .44-40. Period. Checked with Midway; all they carry is Winchester Cowboy loads; a wheezy 700 fps at 40-sump'n bucks a box of 50.  (jh  I could buy moulds for that kind of scratch. Nuts. On to rollin' my own.
Next up is brass. Was looking for either Winchester or Remington, but not available from Midway. Midsouth listed it, but out of stock with no reorder date. Natchez didn't even have it listed. Midway has Starline brass but out of stock. Midway also had decent quantities of hard cast bullets pretty reasonable, but really need to slug my barrel first as they are available in .427, .428, or .429 in 200gr RNFP. Of course, I realized I will need dies so I placed an order with Midway for the RCBS .44-40 "Cowboy" dies (which are dimensionally a bit different; designed for loading cast lead bullets rather than modern jacketed stuff). While placing the order, I realized that I didn't have a shell holder or trim shellholder either, so threw them in as well. Sheesh... L@J
Getting to be on a first-name basis with Midway. I'm just glad they had another free shipping deal today.

Midway free shipping offer: (ends midnight tonight)

https://www.midwayusa.com/promo/free-shipping-040819?utm_source=bullseye-bargain&utm_medium=email&utm_content=main-image-link&utm_campaign=bb-fs-vat
Title: Re: Get your kicks on Route '66
Post by: Hawg on April 11, 2019, 10:29:55 PM
https://www.starlinebrass.com/brass-cases/44-40-Brass/  44-40 cowboy dies size to .429, standard dies size to .427. I shave lead and crush cases with standard dies,
Title: Re: Get your kicks on Route '66
Post by: LonesomePigeon on April 12, 2019, 08:14:45 AM
Track of The Wolf carries .44-40 Starline brass. They have some molds too but I don't recall which ones. Big Lube has the .44-40 Mav Dutchman mold, which has huge lube grooves especially for black powder. I got one, I like the bullets but they are 6 cavity molds and I'm not sure I wouldn't rather have a 2 cavity one.
Title: Re: Get your kicks on Route '66
Post by: Captainkirk on April 12, 2019, 10:12:42 AM
I did see that Starline sells direct, (but not at a discount) and also that Track does have them as well. Their prices don't match Midway's, so I guess I will wait a bit and see if Midway gets them back in stock, though it's nice to have alternatives. With free shipping deals, you are saving 10 bucks per order, so it does make a difference.
I try not to order from Midway unless they have free shipping going on.
Title: Re: Get your kicks on Route '66
Post by: ShotgunDave on April 16, 2019, 10:32:53 AM
That's a real beauty Capt! Look forward to your shooing report.

I too just got a 66 short rifle. It's a Miroku/Winchester in 44-40. It's in transit to my FFL right now. Can't wait to get it in hand.
Title: Re: Get your kicks on Route '66
Post by: Captainkirk on April 16, 2019, 11:15:56 AM
That's a real beauty Capt! Look forward to your shooing report.

I too just got a 66 short rifle. It's a Miroku/Winchester in 44-40. It's in transit to my FFL right now. Can't wait to get it in hand.

Naturally, we will expect a write-up with lotsa pitchers for dem's who cain't reed none too gud.

Looking forward to it!
Do you load for .44-40 now?
Title: Re: Get your kicks on Route '66
Post by: ShotgunDave on April 16, 2019, 11:26:07 AM
That's a real beauty Capt! Look forward to your shooing report.

I too just got a 66 short rifle. It's a Miroku/Winchester in 44-40. It's in transit to my FFL right now. Can't wait to get it in hand.

Naturally, we will expect a write-up with lotsa pitchers for dem's who cain't reed none too gud.

Looking forward to it!
Do you load for .44-40 now?


Yes Sir, full write up and report will be forthcoming!

I didn't want to hijack your thread, but here's a sneak peek.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/32681245757_9d54cbca29_z.jpg)


I don't currently reload 44-40, but that's about to change.
Title: Re: Get your kicks on Route '66
Post by: Captainkirk on April 16, 2019, 11:36:22 AM



Yes Sir, full write up and report will be forthcoming!

I didn't want to hijack your thread, but here's a sneak peek.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/32681245757_9d54cbca29_z.jpg)

Oh, that be handsome!


I don't currently reload 44-40, but that's about to change.

Good deal. We can exchange notes, then as I am fixing to work up some loads myself.
I have decided to go smokeless in the beginning (Unique) and maybe move to BP later. I ordered a set of the RCBS Cowboy dies, recommended for cast bullets as they expand the case mouth to dimensions more suited to lead bullets (standard .44-40 dies are geared more towards jacketed bullets) Unique is a very inexpensive powder (relatively speaking) and a decent load can be built using a mere 5-9.5gr (do the math). Midway has pre-cast bullets in .427,.428 and .429 depending on your bore that will work well in either smokeless or BP rounds.
I just ordered the new Lyman cast bullets book (4th edition) so will be exploring moulds for the .44-40 as well.
Title: Re: Get your kicks on Route '66
Post by: ShotgunDave on April 16, 2019, 11:45:33 AM


Good deal. We can exchange notes, then as I am fixing to work up some loads myself.
I have decided to go smokeless in the beginning (Unique) and maybe move to BP later. I ordered a set of the RCBS Cowboy dies, recommended for cast bullets as they expand the case mouth to dimensions more suited to lead bullets (standard .44-40 dies are geared more towards jacketed bullets) Unique is a very inexpensive powder (relatively speaking) and a decent load can be built using a mere 5-9.5gr (do the math). Midway has pre-cast bullets in .427,.428 and .429 depending on your bore that will work well in either smokeless or BP rounds.
I just ordered the new Lyman cast bullets book (4th edition) so will be exploring moulds for the .44-40 as well.

Thanks for the info Capt. I'll order the cowboy does as well, since I don't have any yet. It will be great to exchange info. I'll probably go straight for BP in my loadings. Since it's currently what I'm shooting. This is gonna be fun!
Title: Re: Get your kicks on Route '66
Post by: Captainkirk on April 16, 2019, 12:00:29 PM
Thanks for the info Capt. I'll order the cowboy does as well, since I don't have any yet. It will be great to exchange info. I'll probably go straight for BP in my loadings. Since it's currently what I'm shooting. This is gonna be fun!

I know, right? I feel like a kid getting ready for Christmas...
Just a bit of info...if you are going to buy pre-cast bullets (from Midway, or anyone else) they come available either with SPG lube (for black powder loads) or a different lube, for smokeless. While the SPG can be used on smokeless loads, the other way 'round isn't recommended.

You will find the Cowboy dies a bit pricey...but if you read the customer reviews, most felt they were well worth the extra cash outlay. They sure look good, anyway!


https://www.midwayusa.com/product/414634/rcbs-cowboy-3-die-set

Don't forget your shellholder (#35)

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/446170/rcbs-shellholder-35-38-40-wcf-44-40-wcf
Title: Re: Get your kicks on Route '66
Post by: ShotgunDave on April 16, 2019, 01:05:25 PM
Thanks Capt.

I buy my bullets from here for my .45 Colt.

http://www.acmebullet.com/bullets-reloading-brass/44-40-CAL-Lead-Bullets

I'm probably going to try these for the 44-40 as well. The .45's load and shoot nice.

There's also these.

https://bulletsbyscarlett.com/shop?olsPage=products%2F200-grain-44-40-caliber-sized-427


I haven't tried Scarlett's bullets but I know folks that have. They rave about them, so I'll probably be trying them as well.

And you're very correct, it's a lot like Christmas, only better! I never got a gun or gun related gift for Christmas!
Title: Re: Get your kicks on Route '66
Post by: Captainkirk on April 17, 2019, 06:59:47 AM
Dave, both bullets look nice, and reasonably priced. You might want to check and see if the lubes are BP compatible, though.

One thing I forgot to mention; if loading for .44-40 and BP, you may want to consider a compression die.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/978844/montana-precision-swaging-black-powder-compression-die-with-stem-44-caliber

You can also buy the BACO plug to fit your RCBS dies, but not 100% they will fit the Cowboy dies. If I find out for sure I'll let you know.

https://www.buffaloarms.com/44-40-wcf-compression-plug-for-lyman-rcbs-bullet-expander-die-body-van4440rcp
Title: Re: Get your kicks on Route '66
Post by: ShotgunDave on April 17, 2019, 09:19:57 AM
Thanks for the links Capt. That's something I didn't think of. A compression die is a good idea. I bet it helps saving the necks on the 44-40 case.
Title: Re: Get your kicks on Route '66
Post by: Captainkirk on April 17, 2019, 10:29:42 AM
Thanks for the links Capt. That's something I didn't think of. A compression die is a good idea. I bet it helps saving the necks on the 44-40 case.
What it does is compress the dropped powder in the case to a universal distance in each and every case, as well to a universal amount of compression. This allows you to maximize case space (it's quite a stretch to get 40gr of powder into a .44-40 case, from what I hear, especially 2F) and hence allow you to seat your bullet on a wad over the charge. I'm sure you are well aware that BP needs to be compressed without air space between the bullet and powder (unlike smokeless); doing so in BPCR can have bad (if not disastrous) results. The compression die allows repeatable, exact results with BP. Compressing the powder using the bullet does not work well, if at all, and is highly discouraged. Some get by using a marked dowel rod to compress the powder to a pre-measured mark, but it's nowhere as uniform as using a compression die.
Since I do intend to load and shoot black powder in my Sharps, I will be buying a compression die for that cartridge (.45/70). I did read a few negative reviews on the Montana compression die; one feller said he had to chase the threads on the outside of the die to get it to thread into his press. If the BACO compression plug will fit my .45/70  Cowboy die, I might opt for that one, although I would prefer to have a dedicated comp die without having to disassemble anything and may end up just buying the whole shebang.
Title: Re: Get your kicks on Route '66
Post by: ShotgunDave on April 17, 2019, 10:58:13 AM
Oh yes Capt, I'm very aware of the catastrophic results of space between the powder and bullet. When I load my .45's I use a dowel to compress the powder before I seat the bullet. The last thing I want is a hand grenade.

What I was referring to before is, the tendency for the neck to crush when loading 44-40. I've read a lot about it and some guys seem to have the problem a lot, and others seldom or never do. I was thinking that if the powder is compressed before seating the bullet, then the bullet will enter the case mouth much easier and neck crushing will be minimized. Does that make sense? I've never loaded bottlenecked cases before.
Title: Re: Get your kicks on Route '66
Post by: Captainkirk on April 17, 2019, 11:07:50 AM
Yes, makes sense. I've been reading about that as well. A lot of the problem will likely be alleviated by using the Cowboy dies as the expander die sizes the case to different dimensions than standard .44-40 dies, which are generally intended for jacketed or semi-jacketed bullets. If you read the customer reviews for the RCBS cowboy dies on the Midway site, a lot of customers have commented about this issue...enough for me to order them. I can't imagine having a good compression die could hurt matters any way you look at it.
Have you slugged your barrel yet? I would imagine if you could use the standard .44-40 bullet (.427) that would also help to not crush case necks.
And no, while I've loaded plenty of bottleneck rifle ammo, I would really consider the .44-40 a pistol cartridge rather than a rifle cartridge. It will be a learning experience for me as well.
Title: Re: Get your kicks on Route '66
Post by: ShotgunDave on April 17, 2019, 11:16:18 AM
Unfortunately I don't have my rifle in hand yet. It is actually being shipped today to my FFL guy. So once it arrives, it will be another 10 days before I get it, because of wonderful Kalifornia's waiting period. So it will be about the 30th before I have it.
Title: Re: Get your kicks on Route '66
Post by: Captainkirk on April 17, 2019, 11:19:23 AM
Unfortunately I don't have my rifle in hand yet. It is actually being shipped today to my FFL guy. So once it arrives, it will be another 10 days before I get it, because of wonderful Kalifornia's waiting period. So it will be about the 30th before I have it.

That is pure torture.
Illinois is trying hard to outdo Kali as being #1 gun-hater haven in the US. I had to fill out background check paperwork to buy the Santa Barbara...a black powder revolver!!!!
Title: Re: Get your kicks on Route '66
Post by: ShotgunDave on April 17, 2019, 11:38:04 AM
Unfortunately I don't have my rifle in hand yet. It is actually being shipped today to my FFL guy. So once it arrives, it will be another 10 days before I get it, because of wonderful Kalifornia's waiting period. So it will be about the 30th before I have it.

That is pure torture.
Illinois is trying hard to outdo Kali as being #1 gun-hater haven in the US. I had to fill out background check paperwork to buy the Santa Barbara...a black powder revolver!!!!

Oh man! Even we don't have to do that. Black powder guns are still under the radar. At least for now.......

But you're right, waiting is pure hell!

What makes me the maddest is, they do an instant background check. They know right then if you are eligible to own a firearm. You could walk out with it. But they have the 10 day wait as a "cooling off period". Ridiculous.
Title: Re: Get your kicks on Route '66
Post by: Captainkirk on April 17, 2019, 11:52:38 AM
Legally, I can still buy a BP gun without going through an FFL. But all the FFL shops are forced to play the game, even with BP.
One of the neat features of my LGS is they allow layaways...put your pittance down, they run the BG check right then and there...and when you come to pay off your gun, you can walk right out of the store with it.
"Cooling off period"...how stupid is that, really? Just another gimme brown-nose tactic for the libs showing them how much we are trying to play ball with them.
I wonder how many angry people have actually purchased a gun and used it in anger the same day, seriously? If you are really intent on shooting someone, do they really think three days (or 10, now) will make you change your mind? Not likely.
Title: Re: Get your kicks on Route '66
Post by: ShotgunDave on April 17, 2019, 01:21:06 PM
Legally, I can still buy a BP gun without going through an FFL. But all the FFL shops are forced to play the game, even with BP.
One of the neat features of my LGS is they allow layaways...put your pittance down, they run the BG check right then and there...and when you come to pay off your gun, you can walk right out of the store with it.
"Cooling off period"...how stupid is that, really? Just another gimme brown-nose tactic for the libs showing them how much we are trying to play ball with them.
I wonder how many angry people have actually purchased a gun and used it in anger the same day, seriously? If you are really intent on shooting someone, do they really think three days (or 10, now) will make you change your mind? Not likely.

I would be willing to bet money I don't have, that not one single "crime of passion" has ever been prevented by a waiting period. If someone is hell bent on shooting someone, the last place they're going to go is a gun shop.
Title: Re: Get your kicks on Route '66
Post by: Captainkirk on April 17, 2019, 01:25:03 PM
I would be willing to bet money I don't have, that not one single "crime of passion" has ever been prevented by a waiting period. If someone is hell bent on shooting someone, the last place they're going to go is a gun shop.

Amen!
Title: Re: Get your kicks on Route '66
Post by: scooby on April 30, 2019, 09:37:34 PM
I have long since belonged to the group that has had success with not compressing black powder. Learned that from some of the scribes that were writing for the Single Shot Exchange. Instead, the powder is only settled and then the bullet, or wad and bullet combo are seated onto the the powder column. Same concept as loading a muzzle loader or paper cartridge in a Sharps percussion breech loader.

I still compress several different calibers, but that is simply because I never made new powder chargers for those rounds after I started bypassing the compression step, or the fact that I wanted a few extra grains for small capacity cases.

If one is crushing the necks on a 44-40 case, two of the reasons are from not belling the mouth properly, or stuffing too large of a diameter bullet into a case that was expanded by too small of an expander plug. Same thing can happen with near any brass. As you say Capt., the Cowboy dies give you an additional option to assist with an often chosen larger diameter cast bullet.

The worst scenerio I ever witnessed was using the Lyman 310 dies for 45-70. The expander plug proved to be useless with a cast bullet. However, every original Winchester reloading tool that I have works like a charm.

Some of the info pertaining to the weakness of the 44-40 comes from a long time ago when fellers were first starting out reloading for it once again. Most knowledge for black powder reloading was lost over time. And now it has had so much experimentation from so many different modern shooters that it is the same as trying to decide on what kind of micro brew to buy when one starts searching for what method to use when loading black powder cartridges.

But in the end, if the method you choose works and gives suitible results, then it is a sound method. And over time, many black powder cartridge shooters find out through expermentation that most all of the methods work. Even the often forgotten original methods.
Title: Re: Get your kicks on Route '66
Post by: scooby on April 30, 2019, 10:13:03 PM
Oh yes Capt, I'm very aware of the catastrophic results of space between the powder and bullet. When I load my .45's I use a dowel to compress the powder before I seat the bullet. The last thing I want is a hand grenade.

What I was referring to before is, the tendency for the neck to crush when loading 44-40. I've read a lot about it and some guys seem to have the problem a lot, and others seldom or never do. I was thinking that if the powder is compressed before seating the bullet, then the bullet will enter the case mouth much easier and neck crushing will be minimized. Does that make sense? I've never loaded bottlenecked cases before.

Say Dave, you will not likely have too much powder in the neck portion of the 44-40 case to begin with if you settle the powder when charging the case and are shooting an original profiled bullet. The biggest benefit of pre-compressing is not deforming the nose of a soft bullet at the end of the seating operation.

You will likely find that 36 or 37 grains is about right and will need some slight compression with an original profiled bullet. I doubt you will get 40 grains. Is was doable in the old balloon head cases. Perhaps it is possible with some of the modern designed cowboy bullets, but I have no experience there.

Also I will note that I do not weigh any powder charge for small capacity cases. I simply use a pre made bulk volume charger. Some of my 44-40 cases likely get 35 grains by weight while others could get 38. It is the same for all of us when we shoot our percussion revolvers and load them with a flask and spout. A flask will vary because of the variables, but dang, those Colt repros shoot good without an exact weighed charge in each chamber and the lead ball seated to various degrees with an un regulated load lever and plunger.
Title: Re: Get your kicks on Route '66
Post by: ShotgunDave on May 01, 2019, 08:37:45 AM
Thanks for the insight Scooby. I am learning much from your suggestions.

I have a Lee powder measure, but don't use it. When I load up .45 Colt ammo, I use a homemade dipper to charge the cases. I'll do the same for the 44-40. I'll figure out how much powder the case will hold, and construct a dipper just for that caliber.

I am really curious to see the volume of powder a 44-40 case will hold. When loading my .45's, I get about 32 grains in with enough room left to seat a bullet. It obviously compresses the powder, but I don't think I could get much more in the case and still leave enough room to seat the bullet.

I should have all my supplies here by Friday. So experimentation will begin in earnest.
Title: Re: Get your kicks on Route '66
Post by: scooby on May 01, 2019, 08:49:38 AM
Very well then. You are already volume loading for your 45 Colt so you will be spot on with the 44 WCF. I will give you a call one if these evenings soon and pass on another little tip I use for figuring powder column levels to match the bullet being used. It would take too long ro type it here.
Title: Re: Get your kicks on Route '66
Post by: Captainkirk on May 01, 2019, 08:52:56 AM
Thanks for the insight Scooby. I am learning much from your suggestions.

I have a Lee powder measure, but don't use it. When I load up .45 Colt ammo, I use a homemade dipper to charge the cases. I'll do the same for the 44-40. I'll figure out how much powder the case will hold, and construct a dipper just for that caliber.

I am really curious to see the volume of powder a 44-40 case will hold. When loading my .45's, I get about 32 grains in with enough room left to seat a bullet. It obviously compresses the powder, but I don't think I could get much more in the case and still leave enough room to seat the bullet.

I should have all my supplies here by Friday. So experimentation will begin in earnest.
For curiosity's sake, Dave...did you order a compression die with your supplies?
I'm hoping to start cranking out smokeless .44-40 rounds by the end of the week.
Title: Re: Get your kicks on Route '66
Post by: ShotgunDave on May 01, 2019, 08:56:08 AM
Very well then. You are already volume loading for your 45 Colt so you will be spot on with the 44 WCF. I will give you a call one if these evenings soon and pass on another little tip I use for figuring powder column levels to match the bullet being used. It would take too long ro type it here.

Thank you Scooby. I look forward to talking with you again!
Title: Re: Get your kicks on Route '66
Post by: ShotgunDave on May 01, 2019, 08:57:38 AM
Thanks for the insight Scooby. I am learning much from your suggestions.

I have a Lee powder measure, but don't use it. When I load up .45 Colt ammo, I use a homemade dipper to charge the cases. I'll do the same for the 44-40. I'll figure out how much powder the case will hold, and construct a dipper just for that caliber.

I am really curious to see the volume of powder a 44-40 case will hold. When loading my .45's, I get about 32 grains in with enough room left to seat a bullet. It obviously compresses the powder, but I don't think I could get much more in the case and still leave enough room to seat the bullet.

I should have all my supplies here by Friday. So experimentation will begin in earnest.
For curiosity's sake, Dave...did you order a compression die with your supplies?
I'm hoping to start cranking out smokeless .44-40 rounds by the end of the week.

I haven't ordered the compression die yet Capt. Thanks for reminding me.
Title: Re: Get your kicks on Route '66
Post by: Captainkirk on June 13, 2019, 06:43:07 AM
So, I put the Yellow Boy through the paces on my little north woods vacation trip. Only put 10 rounds through it as the mosquitoes were ferocious and all I was doing was a functional check, but let's just say I'm happy with the function of it...all 10 loaded, ejected, and functioned flawlessly.
Title: Re: Get your kicks on Route '66
Post by: ShotgunDave on June 13, 2019, 08:46:47 AM
Excellent news!
Title: Re: Get your kicks on Route '66
Post by: Captainkirk on June 13, 2019, 12:07:37 PM
Just playin' with the Flickr effects...

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48056992431_21d02a3fa7_c.jpg)
Title: Re: Get your kicks on Route '66
Post by: ShotgunDave on June 13, 2019, 03:24:52 PM
Awesome picture Capt.
Title: Re: Get your kicks on Route '66
Post by: Captainkirk on June 14, 2019, 09:54:59 AM
Awesome picture Capt.

Thanks, Dave. Scooby showed me the beauty of B&W photos through a bunch of his postings.
Though I complain some about Flickr now charging a small fee for photo hosting, I really enjoy being able to alter and doctor my photos, plus I have unlimited storage space.
Title: Re: Get your kicks on Route '66
Post by: Captainkirk on June 27, 2019, 01:05:36 PM
More playin' around...

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48139606436_47c3b9dcce_c.jpg)
Title: Re: Get your kicks on Route '66
Post by: Captainkirk on June 27, 2019, 01:11:23 PM
More playin'...

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48139639861_6dd9fb24c8_c.jpg)