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Welcomes and General Information => General Discussion => Topic started by: ssb73q on January 30, 2020, 04:52:34 AM

Title: Muzzleloader??
Post by: ssb73q on January 30, 2020, 04:52:34 AM
Hi, look what is now being called a muzzleloader:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLXmrDAh0rA

Regards,
Richard
Title: Re: Muzzleloader??
Post by: Captainkirk on January 30, 2020, 09:08:58 AM
People can own and shoot what they like, but personally, that made me wanna puke.
Title: Re: Muzzleloader??
Post by: ShotgunDave on January 30, 2020, 09:18:31 AM
I saw this thing the other day. No thanks. It's too modern for my taste. Maybe it appeals to some, just not me.
Title: Re: Muzzleloader??
Post by: Captainkirk on January 30, 2020, 10:05:56 AM
Sorry, but "modern muzzle loaders" are nothing but a work-around so people who don't give a tin whistle about actual historic muzzle loaders can sneak in to the ML hunting seasons and snipe the game out from under us. If they were not permitted to do so, nobody would buy one.
If you can't hunt with what our forefathers did, go hunt in the regular gun season.
Title: Re: Muzzleloader??
Post by: Hawg on January 30, 2020, 10:06:53 AM
It's pretty disgusting. Probably expensive to shoot too and what exactly is Hodgdon Triple 8? It would be legal here but I doubt it would sell here since legal primitive weapons are breech loading cartridge rifles using smokeless powder.
Title: Re: Muzzleloader??
Post by: Yolla Bolly Brad on January 30, 2020, 10:11:03 AM
Not even a white cloud of smoke! Black powder hunting seasons were introduced as a way to give hunters more days in the field but with a fun and traditional handicap. Americans are always looking to stretch the rules for an advantage. The same thing happened with shotgun slug hunts for deer. The idea was to limit the range of the firearm in populated areas, but to overcome this rifled barrels and sabot slugs were developed for shotguns.
Title: Re: Muzzleloader??
Post by: Captainkirk on January 30, 2020, 10:25:21 AM
Not even a white cloud of smoke! Black powder hunting seasons were introduced as a way to give hunters more days in the field but with a fun and traditional handicap. Americans are always looking to stretch the rules for an advantage. The same thing happened with shotgun slug hunts for deer. The idea was to limit the range of the firearm in populated areas, but to overcome this rifled barrels and sabot slugs were developed for shotguns.
Brad, at least with rifled slugs or even rifled barrels, you are pretty much limited to 40-50 yard shots. These new "ML rifles" with a scope or red dot sight can easily drive a copper- clad saboted bullet out to 150+ yards and group like a centerfire rifle. I have no more regard for them than I do a crossbow. I bear no grudge against the products themselves; technology is a self-fulfilling prophecy and shooters can own and shoot whatever floats their boat. It's the way the makers cheat the system by allowing the "primitive hunting" owners to mix in with a guy shooting a .50 cal half stock using real BP, a patched roundball and open sights. Totally unfair advantage IMHO.
Title: Re: Muzzleloader??
Post by: Yolla Bolly Brad on January 30, 2020, 10:44:06 AM
Not even a white cloud of smoke! Black powder hunting seasons were introduced as a way to give hunters more days in the field but with a fun and traditional handicap. Americans are always looking to stretch the rules for an advantage. The same thing happened with shotgun slug hunts for deer. The idea was to limit the range of the firearm in populated areas, but to overcome this rifled barrels and sabot slugs were developed for shotguns.
Brad, at least with rifled slugs or even rifled barrels, you are pretty much limited to 40-50 yard shots. These new "ML rifles" with a scope or red dot sight can easily drive a copper- clad saboted bullet out to 150+ yards and group like a centerfire rifle. I have no more regard for them than I do a crossbow. I bear no grudge against the products themselves; technology is a self-fulfilling prophecy and shooters can own and shoot whatever floats their boat. It's the way the makers cheat the system by allowing the "primitive hunting" owners to mix in with a guy shooting a .50 cal half stock using real BP, a patched roundball and open sights. Totally unfair advantage IMHO.
  The new saboted shotgun ammo in a rifled barrel is supposed to be effective out past a hundred yards. Some folks are claiming 3" groups. I'll find out soon because I'm getting prepped for a slug hunt for wild pigs in my area. I've already got a rifled barrel on an old Model 37 Ithica and will be mounting a scope.
  They've pretty much eliminated traditional black powder hunting in California since now you have to use a non-lead bullet. This means no more round lead balls, just saboted coppers bullets.
Title: Re: Muzzleloader??
Post by: Captainkirk on January 30, 2020, 10:52:36 AM
Right...like the minuscule number of primitive hunters who actually manage to get off a lucky shot are really contributing to the poisoning of the environment... ::)
Besides, as I got into a debate with a tree hugger once and asked (when that topic came up), "Where does lead come from, anyway?" Blank stare...he really did not know. (K|
Yeah, I get it. Lead paint on kids' room window sills is bad. Getting a pass-through on a nice 8 point buck and burying itself in a tree stump...bad? Really? (K|
When it comes right down to it, the more educated people become, the stupider they get.
Title: Re: Muzzleloader??
Post by: G Dog on January 30, 2020, 11:21:06 AM
“...part of a whole new muzzleloader system“. 

“The New FireStick system is a breakthrough black powder invention that creates a safe and easy way to load your muzzleloader rifle“

“...allows for speed and convenience with less wasted time at the shooting range. There is no hassle of pouring granular powder or putting in pellets to charge the rifle“.



Step right up!  Stunning and bold or is that brave and stunning.  Whichever.  A more fitting name for the powder may have been Triple 6.
Title: Re: Muzzleloader??
Post by: Captainkirk on January 30, 2020, 11:41:43 AM
  A more fitting name for the powder may have been Triple 6.

Stop it now, G. People are looking at me funny 'cuz I'm LOL. *6' *6' *6' *6'
Title: Re: Muzzleloader??
Post by: sourdough on January 30, 2020, 11:46:20 AM
What will the owner of such a gun do with it when the Firestick cartridge is no longer available?
Title: Re: Muzzleloader??
Post by: Captainkirk on January 30, 2020, 11:48:42 AM
What will the owner of such a gun do with it when the Firestick cartridge is no longer available?
Turn it in on one o' dem gub'mint buybacks, take the proceeds and take the kid to Mickey D.'s for a fine meal.
Title: Re: Muzzleloader??
Post by: Hawg on January 30, 2020, 12:04:29 PM
What will the owner of such a gun do with it when the Firestick cartridge is no longer available?

Somebody will eventually reload them and blow himself up and then the lawsuits will begin.
Title: Re: Muzzleloader??
Post by: Len on January 30, 2020, 12:32:55 PM
Bloody stupid thing. Specially designed for the uneducated.
Title: Re: Muzzleloader??
Post by: mazo kid on February 03, 2020, 11:13:52 AM
Sorry, but "modern muzzle loaders" are nothing but a work-around so people who don't give a tin whistle about actual historic muzzle loaders can sneak in to the ML hunting seasons and snipe the game out from under us. If they were not permitted to do so, nobody would buy one.
If you can't hunt with what our forefathers did, go hunt in the regular gun season.
I agree, gives someone more hunting time with no thought to historical precedence. Here in Wi. the DNR has taken that same approach, allowing in-lines with scopes. As far as I know, Pennsylvania is about the only State that requires traditional flintlock rifles for deer season. Before we even had a "primitive" season, I was hunting regular deer gun season with my flintlocks!
Title: Re: Muzzleloader??
Post by: Hawg on February 03, 2020, 11:41:02 AM
Primitive weapons are a joke here. Legal primitive weapons for the first season here are any breech loading single shot rifle or carbine with an external hammer and .35 caliber or larger using smokeless powder and scopes. The H&R Handi Rifle in .35 Whelen or 45-70 is king. That's just the first primitive weapons season. The rest of the primitive weapons seasons it's weapon of choice. Meaning if it's legal during regular gun season it's legal for primitive weapons. So if you want to use your AR 15 with 30 round mags it's perfectly legal to do so.
Title: Re: Muzzleloader??
Post by: scooby on February 03, 2020, 02:18:41 PM
Idaho got most of the elements right for our muzzleloader seasons by excluding scopes, in-lines, 209 primers, and sabots as well as requiring a minimum of .45 for deer and .50 for elk and moose. They dropped the ball by allowing fiber optic sights and substitute powders. It would appear that they made a compromise between the two sides. At least they dont call it a primative or traditional season.