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Colt Revolvers => Walkers & Dragoons => Topic started by: ssb73q on September 05, 2020, 10:21:05 AM

Title: New Dragoon coming, I think
Post by: ssb73q on September 05, 2020, 10:21:05 AM
Hi, some few weeks ago a member here said that he had an Uberti Whitneyville-Hartford Dragoon that he would like to trade for an Uberti 1862 Navy. That Buy Sell or Trade was screwed up with the message board issues. Since I already have three 1862s I agreed to trade him my newest 1862 Navy for his Dragoon. My 1862 Navy arrived to him in short order, but after three weeks I am still waiting for the Dragoon. It seems to have been lost in shipping. The other person has started a search, but I am concerned that it was lifted by an USPS employee. The Whitneyville-Hartford Dragoon is one revolver that I don't have in my collection so I am disappointed that is somewhere in USPS space.

Since I already have Walker spare parts, the Whitneyville-Hartford Dragoon would fit in very well to my collection.

I have concerns that I may never see that revolver.

Regards,
Richard
Title: Re: New Dragoon coming, I think
Post by: Fingers McGee on September 05, 2020, 10:58:35 AM
Sorry to hear of that Richard.  Hopefully it got caught up in the Covid crap and will show up soon.
Title: Re: New Dragoon coming, I think
Post by: sourdough on September 05, 2020, 01:58:36 PM
Richard,

I truly hope yours shows up. I think you made a splendid deal trading the 1862 Pocket Navy for it. Pricewise, new WH Dragoons sell for ~$100 more than the Pocket Navy: Midway $426; Taylor's $476; Cimarron $485.

I am really hoping you get one of the earlier Uberti versions. They were more historically correct as the trigger/bolt screw did not protrude through the right side of the frame. Subsequent ones did, like my CU/2019 one.

Early version:

(https://i.ibb.co/gvrNFL3/Uberti-Whitneyville-Dragoon001a.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hXgb1Jy)

Current version:

(https://i.ibb.co/ctGcV83/Uberti-Whitneyville-Dragoon002a.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fthYLNF)

Mine that I got on sale from Midway last September for $360 plus taxes plus shipping = $399:

(https://i.ibb.co/k2zmywq/Uberti-Whitneyville-001a.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Dfmrbvw)

When I was looking for one last Summer, I remembered that Midway had previously held two sales for the gun earlier in the year, so I contacted them as to when it might go on sale again. Two days later it went on sale. Coincidence? I don't know, but I would put a bug in their marketing department's ear; it can't hurt and won't cost a cent to do so. Midway loves to move merchandise: they have 3 left as of today: https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1002300991?pid=739564

Just some photos to drool over until yours arrives.  ;)

Regards,

Jim
Title: Re: New Dragoon coming, I think
Post by: ShotgunDave on September 05, 2020, 07:54:53 PM
That really sucks Richard. Hopefully it appears on your doorstep. Might just be covid related nonsense.
Title: Re: New Dragoon coming, I think
Post by: Hawg on September 06, 2020, 03:06:55 AM
Was there no tracking number?
Title: Re: New Dragoon coming, I think
Post by: ssb73q on September 06, 2020, 09:27:14 AM
Hi Hawg, yes there is USPS tracking, 9114902307224270467024. After the dragoon owner asked USPS to do a trace yesterday, the date and time leaving Buffalo, NY was changed. However, that is the same information from a couple of weeks ago. The proof of the pudding is if the package shows up at the Attica post office on Tuesday morning.

Thankfully, the dragoon owner took out insurance so this will end up satisfactory, I think.

Regards,
Richard
Title: Re: New Dragoon coming, I think
Post by: ssb73q on September 06, 2020, 09:32:09 AM
Hi Jim, the Dragoon has been fired some. The 1862 Navy was never fired, and the short arbor fixed. I think that the trade is equitable.

Equitable? Hmmmm he has the 1862 Navy and I have a tracking number. lol

Regards,
Richard
Title: Re: New Dragoon coming, I think
Post by: Hawg on September 06, 2020, 11:16:20 AM
Hopefully it will get there Tuesday.
Title: Re: New Dragoon coming, I think
Post by: ssb73q on September 08, 2020, 03:50:29 AM
Hi, great news, the Dragoon is at my Attica, NY post office!! Should get the Dragoon today.

Regards,
Richard
Title: Re: New Dragoon coming, I think
Post by: ShotgunDave on September 08, 2020, 09:32:08 AM
That's great news Richard!
Title: Re: New Dragoon coming, I think
Post by: Miguel Loco on September 08, 2020, 09:33:08 AM
Hi, great news, the Dragoon is at my Attica, NY post office!! Should get the Dragoon today.

Regards,
Richard

Thank goodness! WOOO HOOOOO
Title: Re: New Dragoon coming, I think
Post by: ssb73q on September 08, 2020, 09:57:26 AM
Hi Guys, thanks for the encouragement. As soon as I have the Dragoon, I will post some photos. I was thinking that it would be cool to do a nitre bluing job on the Dragoon. Charcoal bluing was the bluing method of Sam Colt.

I intend to turn the Dragoon into a showcase revolver as a winter project. Winters are long here.

Of course, I need to shoot it first and report back.

Regards,
Richard
Title: Re: New Dragoon coming, I think
Post by: ssb73q on September 09, 2020, 03:43:43 AM
Hi, the Uberti Whitneyville-Hartford Dragoon arrived yesterday. Was built in 2019 (CU) and is in like new condition. It is so nice that it would be a shame to replaced perfectly good bluing. Have not yet disassembled it, but all I think it needs is a arbor length mod. This will be a nice revolver to add to my collection.

Regards,
Richard
Title: Re: New Dragoon coming, I think
Post by: ssb73q on September 09, 2020, 08:49:35 AM
Hi, today I stripped the Dragoon. Opening the revolver had all sorts of black powder residue fall out. I don't think that the internals were ever cleaned. The bore and chambers were spotless so the user did clean those parts well. The nipples in the cylinder are frozen in and now have a good dose of Kroil working on the nipples. The parts have been scrubbed clean and now drying in my kitchen oven @250deg for a half hour.

This experience should remind all BP revolver shooters to often clean the internals of their revolvers. The internals of most BP revolvers are simple and opening up the revolver lets a user understand the internal workings.

Stoning of the Dragoon's internal parts comes next.

Regards,
Richard
Title: Re: New Dragoon coming, I think
Post by: Captainkirk on September 09, 2020, 09:19:34 AM
That's a beautiful example of a Whitneyville. The gun itself is a stunner with it's mixture of Walker and Dragoon bits, and that one looks quite pristine.
Title: Re: New Dragoon coming, I think
Post by: ssb73q on September 09, 2020, 09:35:21 AM
Hi Kirk, I am very impressed with the Dragoon. Unlike the Walker that is like holding railroad tie out in one hand, the Dragoon is just perfect in every respect. I am so impressed that I just ordered a .45 Colt conversion cylinder for the Dragoon. I love shooting my Walkers, but the Dragoon is exactly what a perfect .45 Colt revolver should be. I now know why Mike (Goon) prefers the Dragoon.

Regards,
Richard

Title: Re: New Dragoon coming, I think
Post by: Captainkirk on September 09, 2020, 10:16:56 AM
Hi Kirk, I am very impressed with the Dragoon. Unlike the Walker that is like holding railroad tie out in one hand, the Dragoon is just perfect in every respect. I am so impressed that I just ordered a .45 Colt conversion cylinder for the Dragoon. I love shooting my Walkers, but the Dragoon is exactly what a perfect .45 Colt revolver should be. I now know why Mike (Goon) prefers the Dragoon.

Regards,
Richard

Is this your first Dragoon, Richard?
If so...now you know why I have 3 of them. You adapt to the weight and size relatively quickly and don't notice it after a day or so.
Title: Re: New Dragoon coming, I think
Post by: ShotgunDave on September 09, 2020, 11:28:56 AM
The Dragoon has become my favorite pistol. I have two of them myself. Someday, I will have a Whitneyville also. I love the Walker style grip and frame, but the Dragoon length barrel. Just a perfect pistol.
Title: Re: New Dragoon coming, I think
Post by: 45 Dragoon on September 09, 2020, 12:51:44 PM
Thanks Richard!! I've had a love affair with the Dragoon series since the '80s !! They are big, but not too big and after a while, like Cap says, they become "normal" !!  My  "45's"  have been just outstanding for almost 10 yrs now and I don't baby them one bit!! In fact, I'm rather "demanding" of them!!  If Freedom Arms made a "Dragoon" .  .  .  they'd be like mine!!
  Mine have an action shield added which keeps the outside outside and the inside inside as well as interference pins which keep the action screws from ever loosening if I shot from now till eternity!! Lol!!
ShotgunDave!! We have good company!!!

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks
Title: Re: New Dragoon coming, I think
Post by: mazo kid on September 09, 2020, 03:00:32 PM
OK, I'll display my ignorance (again!); what features are different on the Whitneyville-Hartford Dragoon from the "regular" Dragoon? When were the changes made?
Title: Re: New Dragoon coming, I think
Post by: ShotgunDave on September 09, 2020, 03:09:37 PM
Em, the Whitneyville Dragoon is also known as the Transitional model. It was the first series of Dragoons made after the Walker. The grip enters into the frame like Walker and has the old "V" type mainspring. It also has the oval stop slots on the cylinder and the shorter barrel of the Dragoon. After the Whitneyville, came the First model Dragoon.

The first model had the more familiar grip that all other the Dragoons have but still had the oval stop slots. Then the second model dispensed with the oval stop slots and went to rectangular. On the third model they dropped the square back trigger guard and the lever latch changed.

I'm sure I'm probably missing a few things, but that about sums it up.
Title: Re: New Dragoon coming, I think
Post by: 45 Dragoon on September 09, 2020, 03:38:54 PM
You pretty much got it Dave. Somewhere in the 1st series the V mainspring became flat and the hammer roll showed up.  Interestingly, the "advancements" from the Dragoon series is what trickled down to the shall we say "lesser" models .  .  .  (lol). 
  As mentioned, the Walker grip is just a splendid thing which is why the Whitneyville gets the  " Top Rank "  along with the closed action screw holes on the right side (like the Walker) for me! But, I fully respect all the models of the Dragoons.

Mike
Title: Re: New Dragoon coming, I think
Post by: mazo kid on September 09, 2020, 04:07:19 PM
Thanks, I knew the differences in the Dragoon series, but not the W-H Dragoon.
Title: Re: New Dragoon coming, I think
Post by: 45 Dragoon on September 09, 2020, 05:16:20 PM
The Whitneyville Dragoon has the Walker frame  ( closed trigger and bolt screw  holes on the right side) and grip.  It's really just a Walker with a shorter barrel, arbor, and cylinder. 

Mike
Title: Re: New Dragoon coming, I think
Post by: sourdough on September 09, 2020, 06:38:32 PM
The Whitneyville Dragoon has the Walker frame (closed trigger and bolt screw holes on the right side) and grip.  It's really just a Walker with a shorter barrel, arbor, and cylinder. 

Mike

You are correct, but the WH that Uberti markets today does not exhibit those traits: the trigger/bolt screws protrude to the right side of the frame. I have one.

The very early Uberti WH Dragoons were correct. I found one about 6 months ago on GB, but the seller was asking a huge price for it and it did not sell. I still kick myself for not buying it because very few were produced.

(https://i.ibb.co/p2TrGy5/Uberti-Whitneyville-Dragoon001.jpg) (https://ibb.co/wyqr3sj)

Regards,

Jim




Title: Re: New Dragoon coming, I think
Post by: ssb73q on September 09, 2020, 06:39:35 PM
Hi, the hammer on the Uberti Whitneyville is different than the Uberti Walker. The Walker has a hammer link to the hammer spring, the Whitneyville does not have that link. Also, the Walker hammer spring has a pawl to capture the hammer link. The Whitneyville doesn't have that pawl. Therefore both the hammer and hammer spring isn't interchangeable between the Uberti Walker and Whitneyville Dragoon.

Regards,
Richard
Title: Re: New Dragoon coming, I think
Post by: Captainkirk on September 09, 2020, 06:43:43 PM
Hi, the hammer on the Uberti Whitneyville is different than the Uberti Walker. The Walker has a hammer link to the hammer spring, the Whitneyville does not have that link. Also, the Walker hammer spring has a pawl to capture the hammer link. The Whitneyville doesn't have that pawl. Therefore both the hammer and hammer spring isn't interchangeable between the Uberti Walker and Whitneyville Dragoon.

Regards,
Richard
I've read that before, but sorta hard to picture in my mind. Would you do us a favor and next time you have them apart, maybe snap a pic or two outlining the physical differences?
Title: Re: New Dragoon coming, I think
Post by: mazo kid on September 10, 2020, 09:25:54 AM
Yes, I would like to see that also.
Title: Re: New Dragoon coming, I think
Post by: 45 Dragoon on September 10, 2020, 09:54:45 AM
I haven't seen that here. The V mainspring (as far as Walkers /Whitney's go) is the correct (historically) setup for Walkers and Whitneyville Dragoons. The "cupped" end of the mainspring rides the hammer  (without the benefit of a hammer roll) but it does deliver a mechanical advantage of "acceleration" because of how it rides the hammer for the last bit of travel! That is exactly where I discovered the  "Goons Kickass Mainspring"  mod for flat mains!!!  As far as what setup one may find in an aftermarket copy as being "historically correct" is whimsy ("whatever makes it work to get it out the door" ain't history).

Mike
Title: Re: New Dragoon coming, I think
Post by: ssb73q on September 10, 2020, 11:00:32 AM
Hi, Mike, you are correct. Both the Uberti Whitneyville Dragoon and Uberti Walker have the same mainspring. I am f-ing old, stupid, where the mainspring of the Paterson confused me. lol Guess I just have too many BP revolvers. It took looking in my huge spare parts box to see the truth. Sorry for the misinformation.

This is the shape of both the Walker and Uberti Whitneyville Dragoon revolver:

https://www.dixiegunworks.com/index/page/product/product_id/6206/category_id/498/product_name/TP0242+Mainspring+-+V+shaped+for+reproduction+Colt+Walker+or+First++Second+Model+Dragoon+Revolver

This is good to learn since I have a couple of Walker mainsprings that were narrowed to produce a lighter hammer and trigger pull.

Maybe I'm just too old to keep posting here?

Regards,
Richard

Title: Re: New Dragoon coming, I think
Post by: 45 Dragoon on September 10, 2020, 12:01:39 PM
Richard lol!!! You are absolutely NOT too old  (or anything else !!)  to be posting here (or anywhere else!!) !!  Let alone "stupid" !!!!  You have the ability to "see" how things work and come up with "cures" for problems  (stub .22 barrels) that in fact do exist!
  I know we've had "runarounds" in the past but I think you and I have gained from each other . I definitely respect your input!! Mainly because it comes from experience! In order to learn, one has to be willing to and listen to experience!!

 Thank you !!   (I know, Paterson's are an anomaly  at best!! Lol!)

Mike
Title: Re: New Dragoon coming, I think
Post by: ShotgunDave on September 10, 2020, 12:23:12 PM
This is exactly why I love this place! We all share and learn from each other. Right or wrong, we're all as important as the next guy.

Richard, you were absent for the last month or so, and you were sorely missed. Don't let it happen again. Keep them posts coming!
Title: Re: New Dragoon coming, I think
Post by: sourdough on September 10, 2020, 01:12:54 PM
^^^^^^
What the last two guys iterated! Richard, I thought you were PO'd at us because of your absence. Good to see you back home.

Regards,

Jim
Title: Re: New Dragoon coming, I think
Post by: ssb73q on September 10, 2020, 03:28:26 PM
Hi guys, thank you for the kind comments. In the future I will work harder so as to not again pollute the internet with misinformation. The reason I have been absent from the message board is AG's fault. He got me hooked on flying drones. Every nice day is a good day to fly. Drones make me feel like a kid again.

The new Dragoon woke me again up to my real passion, shooting BP revolvers.

Regards,
Richard
Title: Re: New Dragoon coming, I think
Post by: ShotgunDave on September 10, 2020, 03:32:24 PM
Fully understand about the drones Richard. I went down that rabbit hole once too.

Welcome back! )l_
Title: Re: New Dragoon coming, I think
Post by: ssb73q on September 13, 2020, 09:31:20 AM
Hi, the internal parts of the dragoon have been polished, the brass polished, and the short arbor fixed with an 8-32 set screw. The hammer rear sight was widened and deepened to provide a better sight picture. It took some effort to remove the nipples from the BP cylinder. Kroil finally did the trick to remove them. I'm waiting for the conversion cylinder before setting the correct arbor length. This is one handsome BP revolver. I suspect that the dragoon will shoot high with .45 Colt and may need to install a taller dovetail sight. If a revolver doesn't shoot poi=poa it handicaps the shooter.

I don't expect this dragoon revolver to become simply a safe queen, it will be shot and shot often.

Regards,
Richard
Title: Re: New Dragoon coming, I think
Post by: ssb73q on September 17, 2020, 08:15:04 AM
Hi, the .45 Colt conversion cylinder from Taylor came in and it is a drop-in perfect fit. I shot this conversion for the first time today. Other than shooting a bit high @25yds, it grouped pretty well. The first photo is the Dragoon after firing. The second and third photos are the target shot two handed from 25yds. I knew from laser bore sighting that the revolver would shoot high. My first shot is the lower one aiming slightly below the target. The remaining four shots were aiming at the first low shot. My .45 Colt rounds are loaded for a velocity of 850fps.

I am seriously thinking of putting on a taller dovetail sight so that the poi=poa @25yds.

Over all, I'm a pretty happy camper.

Regards,
Richard
Title: Re: New Dragoon coming, I think
Post by: mazo kid on September 17, 2020, 09:05:44 AM
Well, you are way ahead of me; I still haven't shot my 2nd Model with the conversion cylinder. L@J
Title: Re: New Dragoon coming, I think
Post by: Captainkirk on September 17, 2020, 09:09:09 AM
"Kinda like it, don't ya, pilgrim?"
Title: Re: New Dragoon coming, I think
Post by: ShotgunDave on September 17, 2020, 10:47:11 AM
Damn fine work there Richard.
Title: Re: New Dragoon coming, I think
Post by: Woodsrunner79 on September 18, 2020, 04:40:00 AM
Richard

Very glad to gear that the Dragoon is treating you well. I knew it would. Steller review.
On a more, sour note. The 62 is no longer with me. We came home one night to a break in. Asshats took that (it wasn't in the safe, I'd been to the range that day)and a bunch of family jewelry along with any fuel I had in 5gal jugs. My hope is that it turns up local.

Jordan
Title: Re: New Dragoon coming, I think
Post by: ssb73q on September 18, 2020, 08:10:21 AM
Hi Jordan, I am so sorry for your loss. Hope it turns up for you.

There must be something in the time/space continuum, first the Dragoon is lost in the mail and now your loss?

Regards,
Richard
Title: Re: New Dragoon coming, I think
Post by: ssb73q on September 18, 2020, 09:54:04 AM
"Kinda like it, don't ya, pilgrim?"

Hi Kirk, sure do! However, any and every BP revolver being shot automatically becomes my favorite. Of course, the 1851 which in my opinion is the best BP revolver ever designed and it will always at the top of my BP revolver love list.

Regards,
Richard
Title: Re: New Dragoon coming, I think
Post by: Captainkirk on September 18, 2020, 10:04:10 AM
Richard, my only issue with the '51 Navy (or it's "fantasy big bore Pietta brother") is the grip...the 60 Army has the best grip for my hand.
Title: Re: New Dragoon coming, I think
Post by: ssb73q on September 20, 2020, 11:44:35 AM
Richard, my only issue with the '51 Navy (or it's "fantasy big bore Pietta brother") is the grip...the 60 Army has the best grip for my hand.

Hi Kirk, while not original I believe you can put an 1860 grip on the 1851. They both use a similar frame.

Regards,
Richard
Title: Re: New Dragoon coming, I think
Post by: ShotgunDave on September 20, 2020, 01:06:32 PM
Navy pistols with Army grips.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47960489118_e749ece518_z.jpg)

Best of both worlds.
Title: Re: New Dragoon coming, I think
Post by: sourdough on September 20, 2020, 04:40:16 PM
Show off!  &\?

Jim
Title: Re: New Dragoon coming, I think
Post by: soonerfan66 on September 21, 2020, 08:28:10 PM
Nice looking revolver you got there , glad it all worked out . I like my Colt Walker repro but my Uberti Dragoon 1st model just feels better to shoot . They got enough weight which helps me hold on target  and better balance also .
Title: Re: New Dragoon coming, I think
Post by: ssb73q on September 23, 2020, 10:03:32 AM
Navy pistols with Army grips.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47960489118_e749ece518_z.jpg)

Best of both worlds.

Hi Dave, you are my hero!

Regards,
Richard
Title: Re: New Dragoon coming, I think
Post by: ShotgunDave on September 23, 2020, 10:18:59 AM
Thanks Richard!

At one time, I swapped all my Navy grips out for the Army type. My hand is just a bit big for the Navy grip. Now the only Navy grips I have are on the two Dance pistols I made. I want to keep those two correct looking. At this time, I don't own a Navy, so it's Army grips all the way for me. Except for the Dragoons of course.
Title: Re: New Dragoon coming, I think
Post by: electricfactory on October 08, 2020, 05:32:45 PM
Why would .45 LC make the Dragoon shoot high ? Is this the case with all of the conversion pistols ?

Hi, the internal parts of the dragoon have been polished, the brass polished, and the short arbor fixed with an 8-32 set screw. The hammer rear sight was widened and deepened to provide a better sight picture. It took some effort to remove the nipples from the BP cylinder. Kroil finally did the trick to remove them. I'm waiting for the conversion cylinder before setting the correct arbor length. This is one handsome BP revolver. I suspect that the dragoon will shoot high with .45 Colt and may need to install a taller dovetail sight. If a revolver doesn't shoot poi=poa it handicaps the shooter.

I don't expect this dragoon revolver to become simply a safe queen, it will be shot and shot often.

Regards,
Richard
Title: Re: New Dragoon coming, I think
Post by: Captainkirk on October 08, 2020, 06:22:48 PM
All the Colts were designed to "shoot high" (zero @ 75 yards) so normal shooting at 25 will group high. Richard installs taller sights on all his pistols to zero POA at 25 yards...normal revolver shooting range.
This process began with the Walkers and Dragoons, designed to take down a man or horse at 75 yards. Can't say if the Patersons were sighted the same way as I never owned or shot one!