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Topics - pitfighter

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Walkers & Dragoons / Beat up Reproduction Walker
« on: September 09, 2019, 12:52:50 PM »
Hi Gentlemen,

I collect mostly "original" period items, this Walker turned up in a grouping recently.

Obviously it's a fairly "low value" modern reproduction, but I wondered if you experts could tell me a little more about it.
The pictures show all the visible markings.

Rifling is of the modern type and it looks unfired.

My thought is that it's a kit that someone has finished roughly and stamp marked to their own design.
There is no country of manufacture engraved and no proof, or import marks.

The revolver in the center.

US 1847

A Company No 68

A Company No 68

A Company No 68

Blank Patent no. 

I found this beat-up and "fixed-up" (somewhat-repaired) little number and the price was right, so now its in my small collection.

All numbers "on show" are matching.
Except for a replacement cylinder-wedge.
Solid mechanism lock-up on a no-wobble barrel - no half cock sadly.  it's there, just doesn't hold.
Some cosmetic "repair" to barrel.
Address and patent inscriptions are good.
Also a fair amount of the cylinder-roll is still visible.

Here is an image with a First Model Dragoon for scale.

Here's a character who chose to carry two dragoons in his belt.

At this point I decided to look up the serial number on the Colt site - as I had decided to do this, I thought I'd take out all of the old Colt's and look up their numbers, too - for fun.

#My Colt 1860 Army serial - is listed on the Colt Site as being manufactured 1862.
#My Colt First Model Dragoon - is listed on the Colt Site as being manufactured 1849.
(If it's a period copy they may have copied an original and pilfered its numbers.)

With 1851's.

Doesn't mean much, but its fun to do.

Colt Pocket Model 1849 - 213285
Colt Site data: Year of Manufacture 1862 Model 1849 POCKET (.31 CALIBER WITH STAGECOACH SCENE ON CYLINDER)

Colt Dragoon First Model of 1849 - 7496
Colt Site data: Year of Manufacture 1849 Model 1ST MODEL DRAGOON

Colt Army Model of 1860 - 56144
Colt Site data: Year of Manufacture 1862 Model 1860 ARMY (.44 CALIBER WITH NAVAL ENGAGEMENT SCENE ON CYLINDER)

Colt Navy Model of 1851 - 212172
Colt Site data: Year of Manufacture 1871 Model 1851 NAVY (.36 CALIBER WITH NAVAL ENGAGEMENT ON CYLINDER, OCTAGONAL BARREL)

I post the serials here in public, as this is not really like posting the serial numbers on a registered firearm, that will track back to my FFL, etc.,

1873 SAA Colts / Colt .45 SAA on a Black Powder frame 1884
« on: June 26, 2018, 06:42:45 PM »

I do not normally care too much for restorations - if you've happened across the half dozen or so other Colt's I posted pictures of from my collection, you'll appreciate that I love patina and scars, period-fixes, etc., but this one yelled my name.

It's an 1884 Colt on a black powder frame - note lack of quick release on the cylinder pin - smaller grip size.
It came with the Colt paperwork, and provenance on the original owner - named in the Colt history letter.

As far as I am aware, the restoration from the "original firearm" began on an unserviceable collection of beat-up parts, with many components beyond help. 
This one was effectively brought back from the dead, the barrel is a replacement.
The action is crisp like a brand-new-gun, beautiful sounding elements and timing like glass.

I am still enamored of it, but I am thinking I may shoot the Hell out of it, and allow it to create it's own patina, the restoration was by danthegunman.com (and is fine work) but not a five figure museum grade deal.
 - What do the six-gunners here think about that?  Sacrilege, or have at it!!!!

PS. I won't shoot smokeless powder in the old Colt or any other black powder gun.  I wouldn't even use artifical black ... only true black, and a good grade, too .... and then only light to medium loads of the stuff.  This cylinder is likely wrought iron, and not steel, not that the steel was even proofed for smokeless until after the turn of the century.

Navy Models / Picked up this salty Navy.
« on: May 16, 2018, 10:43:48 PM »
I picked this up in a trade this weekend, nothing special, but there is something about it I just like! 

In fact I am quite dubious about some of the replacement parts on it!  The brass trigger guard for example exhibits none of the fine "scalloping" on the edges that the original Colt's should.  But, the iron is original, although no barrel address, cylinder engraving or patent are left and some "bubba" has had a go at it with his letter stamp kit, and the kill "notches" on the grip bottom - arghh, why?

Colt website serial search states it left the factory in 1871 as a hexagonal barreled .36 caliber 1851 Navy, so it hasn't changed much.
Though like all these older Colt's it's been fixed and polished and repaired to within an inch of it's life, grips are chipped but action is tight and the frame locks solid with the barrel, lol.

The other items are bits and pieces I've picked up in my travels - the flag is an old one, 50's or 60's and I picked it up in Louisiana, it's come in for a lot of flak lately.  It's a historical item and the emotion, anger, pride or honor that it once suggested are history too, the players long since dead and buried. 

Army Models / My 1860 Colt
« on: April 23, 2018, 11:41:45 PM »
This is a fairly standard 1860 Army -
I really like the brown patina, and the "...Col Sam'l..." barrel stamp.
There are some fixes and anachronisms, but nothing more than on any other 150 year working tool.

Old studded belt, brass powder flask, Taylor Eye Witness knife, Confederate $5, velvet boxed Ambriotype with love note, Black Bear claw and .44 lead, miniature marble nude, Native-American hand-tooled Cougar Skull Salmon-season - old counterfeit Colt's Dragoon.

Colt Automatics / New member posting his M1911A1 - 1945 all matching.
« on: April 20, 2018, 09:46:15 PM »
I found this 1911 a little while back.
Sniffing through info. in the books I have and on-line sources, but if anyone knows more about this one, let me know.

It is all 1945 dated, the finish is a great park that has turned a green shade -
There is a very light layer of oil on this as the box it travelled in was a little damp - I took the photos just as the sun was going down tonight - I'll add one with the oil wiped down and "dried."

United States Property M1911A1 U.S. ARMY
No 2267XXX
Matching P's font/size.
Not a re-issue - just a late war Colt.

Inspector is GHD: Guy H. Drewry Colt S/N 845,000 to 2,360,600
(Left side under take down lever.)

Marked with Ordnance Department Inspection Stamp (1943-end of war.)
(right side behind grip.)

Shown with:
1943 Ammunition. 
1943'ish Ek Commando Dagger.
WW2 Enger-Kress 1944 M3 shoulder-holster.
M1 Garand - Springfield.
USMC shirt.

Navy Models / 1851 Metropolitan Navy conversion - my first post here.
« on: April 20, 2018, 09:30:30 PM »
Hi folks, I am new here, so thought I'd re-post my piece from Calguns.
I like this new one and probably did too much writing on it, but there you go.

This is a recent Calguns (CA shooting forum) purchase, this revolver meets the criteria of not being particularly valuable or prized by collectors but possessing of inherent interesting details and stuffed full of a rich and veritable history.  A wonderful example of, “…If only it could tell it’s tales…”
*Apologies for the length of this post, but I got enthralled in the research.

This actual revolver would have left the factory between 1864 and 1866.

History of Metropolitan:
(Abbreviated from several on-line sources and the page or so in Flayderman's book.)
An almost exact copy of the Colt 1851 Navy, considered to be a secondary issue during the American Civil War. In 1864, Colt's East Armory erupted into flames which destroyed all but two of its buildings. The event could not have happened at a worse time for the concern for America was embroiled in a Civil War and US government contracts were readily available.
With the need for more and more guns for the war effort ever growing, the now-damaged Colt production lines needed assistance in keeping up with demand. The Syms Brothers, formerly of Blunt and Syms, quickly formed the Metropolitan Arms Co, as such, the Metropolitan Arms Company of New York stepped in to offer production of Colt revolver copies, giving rise the oft-forgotten species of revolver known simply as the "Metropolitan Navy Percussion".

These firearms were aimed to satisfy the enormous demand for revolvers during the Civil War, and were used by both North and South.

Only about 6100 Navy’s were produced by Metropolitan. In order to give the impression of greater production, starting at about number 50 the serial number was increased by 1100. Thus, in order to determine the correct manufacturing sequence, 1100 must be subtracted from the serial number.

Variances from the Colt 1851 Navy included (1) No barrel address or rolled cylinder scene through serial number 1800, (2) a “Metropolitan Arms Co. New-York” barrel address after SN 1800, (3) a rolled cylinder scene depicting a ship battle at New Orleans April 1862 was added after SN 1800, (4) right hand twist rifling, and (5) hammer face recesses on rear of cylinder, instead of safety pins.

All had 7-1/2” octagon barrels and were of 36 caliber. During production there were some additional minor changes made to grip size and contour, and screw direction of the loading rammer.

Bearing matching serial numbers 4344, this included the Metropolitan Arms Company barrel address. The letters “ME” is missing from the word “Metropolitan”, an indication that the roll die began to fail after less than 600 applications.

As can be seen in the photos, serial number 4344 is strongly visible on frame, back-strap, trigger guard, 344 remains on the cylinder, and wedge. The abbreviated number 44 was applied to the loading lever. Unlike Colt, Metropolitan did not number the cylinder arbor (pin), which was built as an added part of the frame.

The original one-piece walnut grips are nice.
The rifling is the Colt style graduated = starts out almost straight and then twists just a little towards the second half of the barrel.

Production of the Metropolitan Navy continued until 1866, when Colt was able to come back online. A few of the post-Civil War production revolvers were sold through dealers such as St. Louis based H. E. Dimmick. These Navy’s saw service all over the American West, along with the Colt counterpart, through the late 1870’s. Unlike some of the newer cartridge guns, percussion caps, black powder, and lead remained available – even in the more remote frontier areas.

Ok - history lesson done :oji: - now onto this revolver in particular:

What is interesting about this Metropolitan revolver:
It has been period-converted to fire the .38” short cartridge - this has been achieved by a fairly-talented gunsmith, permanently altering the revolver in a rather basic but extremely-practical manner.
The patina is identical for conversion parts and gun alike.
1. The hammer has been replaced with one that has a firing pin designed for a center-fire cartridge.
2. The original cylinder (serial number still showing) has been lathed and permanently fitted with a end cap, to accept center fire cartridges,
3. The cap-loading area has been widened and polished to allow loading of center fire cartridges.  Yes, if you aimed upwards at a steep angle you ran the risk of your brass sliding-out.
4. The top of the frame has been cut and then fitted with a cover, to fill the gap that would have allowed for the “percussion” hammer to pass.
5. The lower-barrel-frame area has been trimmed, this is the original barrel, but a new lower piece has been very carefully applied, either for extra strength or to fix an old break - this is the work of an artisan and would be difficult to notice if the serial number had not been lost in the fix.
6. The Cylinder scene has been evenly lathed or re-fin shed and removed - only the remains off the serial number remain visible.

Photographed alongside some items picked up last week in El Paso, where I think a revolver like this "might" have lived on into the 20th century, and would have served someone not able to buy himself a new 1873 style revolver, perhaps a farmer or South of the border bandit for whom a disposable cheap firearm served a practical purpose.  Whoever it was went to a LOT of trouble fixing and converting this revolver, it was truly loved - or cherished:
1. Mexican, Caballero style spurs.
2. Two 1915 era State of Chihuahua bills.
3. Two bandolier's full of .30-30 and a few .30-06 just awesome old leather work, and the real deal.
4. The holster, is a steel clip, open-back style quick-draw - barely fits this revolver, but beggars and bandits can't be choosers.

The loading lever now serves no purpose, except to aid in take down - apply half-cock, tap out edge, and then depress loading lever, which pushes against the cylinder to evenly remove the frontal assembly.  On many conversions, they removed the lever altogether and smoothed the under carriage, to make it lighter in weight - see the sales-ad at the bottom of this post.

Could that be an original percussion hammer, filed and machined, into a firing pin?  I checked the thumb grooves and they are identical to a factory Metropolitan.
Also, it looks like the right side wood grip was repaired, and repaired well, many years ago - as mentioned, someone cared a lot about this revolver!

A similar 1851 conversion system in a catalogue from the 50’s -

Welcome Wagon / Hello - new member here -
« on: April 20, 2018, 09:27:29 PM »
I am starting a small collection of original or period copy guns.

I am based in CA and AZ - work in entertainment and collect pre-1945 things.

Good to meet y'all,


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