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Messages - prof marvel

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Brass and Other Cartridge Casings / Re: Questions regarding 45LC
« on: April 23, 2018, 06:00:27 PM »
Happy to be of service, Val

If one is shooting out-of-doors, it is dirt simple to reload Black, Pyro, APP, or Black MZ -

one dumps a scoop* of powder into the shell, and seat the lead boolit.

I am getting a sub from Sportsmans Warehouse,  "Alliant Black MZ" for $10 a bottle. It cleans easily and doesn't need any lube.

*scoop is a measuring device I fabricate from an old shell, that holds just enough powder that allows about 1/16" of compression by the lead boolit when seating and crimping.

prf mvl

Brass and Other Cartridge Casings / Re: Questions regarding 45LC
« on: April 21, 2018, 05:08:53 PM »
There is a lead semi-wad Federal load available, also in the ~850 fps range:

I too find trailboss to be "unfortunate" for my purposes - specifically I do not care for how it meters or the rapid pressure spike it delivers, per pressure tests I have found online.

The point of using Lead vs Jacketed is generally to keep pressures under control - most hollow-point jacketed loads are somewhat warm.

from the latest Lyman reloading book ( which shows some pressure data)  we can find the loads for jacketed bullets using  true-blue powder produces 11,000 cup - 13,800 cup

whereas a similar soft lead load at the same velocities produces 9,800 cup - 11,000 cup.

generally speaking, the conversion cylinder is the strongest part, for the sake of the rest of the BP revolver it is good to keep things
at or under ~ 12,000 cup

hope this helps

prof marvel

Greetings my Dear Netizens ...

I don't know about the rest of you folks, but on my ASM dragoons, the loading lever latch pivots, and one must push it
forward ( ie towards the muzzle )
or have I gone barmy again?

prof marvel

General Discussion / Re: Favorite Quotes in 'Blackpowder' shows/movies
« on: September 29, 2017, 10:34:09 PM »
"Well, you do what you think's best, Ned"

"Endeveour to Persevere.
We thought about it for a long time, 'Endeavor to persevere.'
And when we had thought about it long enough, we declared war on the Union."

"All I have is a piece of hard rock candy. But it's not for eating. It's just for looking through"

"I didn't surrender, but they took my horse and made him surrender. "

prof marvel

Walkers & Dragoons / Re: Walker conversion with "bp only" cylinder
« on: September 09, 2017, 11:37:24 AM »

I got a whole different meaning on this, I think he was originally planning on using the percussion cylinder for the cartridge conversion but decided it might be too soft. Then decided a follow up plan to go with a Kirst or build one himself using 4140 round stock. If using any smokeless powder, I would not use the original cylinder. I don't think he plans on using percussion ignition.


That is correct sledman -
there have been many hundreds of folks doing there own conversions using the existing italian cylinder, or a an identical replacement.
those with any machining experience have been succesful for the most part, and nearly all, like this fellow,  had done due diligence
and/or asked questions ahead of time. in my correspondence he rerlated that he had successfully done other work and had good luck
with specific reduced loads of specific  powdersin other , (albeit extremely small) calibers and cases, and had put forth the conjecture
that those powders "might" scale up.

prior to our correspondence he ahd decided to use TB, and after our chat h, having seen the pressure curves I stole from elsewhere, he
confirmed that TB would be considerabley safer.

yhs prof marvel

Walkers & Dragoons / Re: Walker conversion with "bp only" cylinder
« on: September 09, 2017, 01:14:03 AM »
Perhaps you should give the link to our hallowed forum?

Captain, My Captain -
terribly sorry for the emission ommision it slipt my poor little grey cells -
he joined over at CAS City...

His walker thread can be found here

and his remmy threads here

whilst most of our discussion was via PM, here are the operant bits concerning
powders and pressure curves that I passed along:

my big concern was seeing that you were considering Red Dot, one of the fastest powders.

if one goes here, and check page 10

we find red dot is one of the fastest burning powders, while unique is one of the slowest non-magnum powders.

Trailboss or even Clays is preferred in large cases since they are more "fluffly"
and less liable to unfortunate results of small ammounts of powder in cavernous cases....

The pressure curves are also important

Here is pressure curve data for Red Dot vs Pb powder

here is red dot vs green dot vs unique

here is an example of "smokeless" vs BP

Anecdotal data indicates Red Dot is extremetely fast burning and unforgiving. we can see here:


that with fastest powder being No1, Red Dot is No.7 , whilst TrailBoss is No.21 and Unique is No.31

the load range for red dot is quite narrow for .45 colt and a 200 gr lead bullet
Red Dot From 7.0 grains to 7.6 grains

compared to unique
Unique From 8.0 grains to 12.2 grains

And the upper range is considered " Ruger Only" ie magnum loads.

As an alternative, if you can get it you might consider a much slower powder like 4831-

we see over here, a similar size case ( Socom 458) but with a much heavier bullet shows comparative
pressures, and you *definitely* want to stay under 12k psi

(taken from here http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=123650)

It is important to understand the trick is not only "peak pressure" of smokeless but also a slower rise or impulse and  "longer burning curve" like BP
or stick with BP or subs when possible.

hope this helps
your humble servant
prof marvel

Walkers & Dragoons / Re: Walker conversion with "bp only" cylinder
« on: September 08, 2017, 07:50:35 PM »
I just got finished corresponding witht the fellow.He is a professional knife & swordsmith with a good grasp of metallurgy.
he wrote that he had considered Red Dot due to "small loads" having similar pressure curves as smokeless *in shotguns*, and
how it worked well in very small calibers such as .32 S&W breaktops .

I shared pressure curve graphs and he allowed as how he was switching to Trail Boss lol ....

Now I am offering the info on the questionable metallurgy of some ASM cylinders .... and he is considering machining his own cylinder of 4140 :-)

prof marvel

Navy Models / Re: One shot at 50 yards
« on: June 18, 2017, 11:03:49 AM »
Hi Sun, I just saw a Colt BP revolver on YouTube that shoots out to 100yds after the sights are regulated:


I too find the long barrel 1851 and 1860 to be obsurdly accurate once properly fitted and correctly sighted in ( if you eyes work!) .

I rather like the turkey myself. Whilst I find that , in general, the domestic white turkey is dumber than a brick,
I myself have met some domestic "wild color" turkeys that were as friendly as a pup  (as long as you are nt a snake).

The local wild turkeys are smarter than most people I know!

It appears to me as though he is displaying for a mate rather than  being aggressive?

prof marvel

General Discussion / Re: Personal names of pistols?
« on: June 03, 2017, 04:31:03 PM »
mine are named " left" and "right"

depending on which holster its in...

Sinister and Dexter, my dear Bruce ....

prof marvel

Powder / Re: T7 pellets for Walker?
« on: April 11, 2017, 12:46:42 AM »
oh, and don't forget Elmer Kieth used a 300 grain lead bullet on top of all the 4f black powder he could cram in a .45 Colt Balloon Head case.
blew the cylinder and topstrap. just saying  ;)

prf mvl

Powder / Re: T7 pellets for Walker?
« on: April 10, 2017, 11:18:13 PM »
T7 is more energetic, I bought some bottles when it was all there was. You can also easily use it in straight wall cases if you run out of

RE 777 -
here is a monster wall of text from Dutch Bill

about 777 he wrote:
With Hodgdon we have Pyrodex and Triple Seven.  The whole patented concept in Pyrodex was the use of sodium benzoate with potassium nitrate.  But to get the two to react fast enough to make it a usefull firearm propellant they had to heave in something like 17 parts of potassium perchlorate.  When the powder burns the potassium perchlorate simply gives up its oxygen and remains as potassium chloride.  ANY chloride will be most corrosive in the gun.

Onto 777.
The patent on Pyrodex ran out a few years back.  Then the in-line ML hunting crowd wanted faster powders.  A big push came when the plastic sabots came into use in the in-line ML rifles.  That 17 parts of potassium perchlorate that was converted to potassium chloride causes a lot of grief with tight fitting sabots.  The little crystals of potassium chloride are scattered to the bore.  When you would push a sabot down the bore the crystals would embed in the plastic.  So you would reach a point where you could not get the sabot down onto the powder charge.

So what we see in 777 is a change to sodium dintitrobenzoate sulonate.  Think of it as going up a notch in benzoates.  This dinitrobenzoate is HIGHLY reactive with charcoal.  So there is no need to heave in a bunch of potassium perchlorate to "strengthen" the powder.  This makes 777 a lot LESS corrosive compared to Pyrodex.  When I checked the 777 on brass plates there was no surface pitting of the brass as with Pyrodex.  Hodgdon's MSDS for 777 shows potassium perchlorate.  From what I saw in my steel plate and brass sheet corrosion tests I don't think it has any perchlorate in it.

With this development of 777 Hodgdon can claim that it is an improved version of Pyrodex.  Makes getting it onto the market a lot cheaper than going through it as if it is an entirely new explosive composition.

The thing about potassium chloride corrosion in gun bores is that a lot of times the average shooter would never know it is happening.  You can get a lot of micro-pitting of the bore which gives the surface of the metal a frosted look.  This comes up to bite the shooter if the shooter switches to black powder.  BP fouling will then act as if it is welded to the bore walls.  Simply because the metal's surface is so rough and pitted.

When Hodgon formulated Triple seven they greatly reduced of amount of potassium perchlorate
compared to the amount found in Pyrodex, about 17% in Pyrodex, based on the patent covering
Pyrodex.  I ran Triple Seven against Pyrodex and the Swiss BP on mild steel plates and on sheet
brass and sheet copper.
The extent of surface leaching was the same with all three powders.

but the problem is this: the Fed MSDS for T7 shows potassium perchlorate.
It is a safety doc relied upon by firefighters, EMT's, doctors and even the "bomb squads"
If Hogdon spoofs the MSDS for any reason all hell can break loose, and I don't think they are willing
to risk losing their license over a little paperwork....

And I wrote a rather long and overly verbose monograph on the topic of cleaning
seen here:

The use of potassium perchlorate as an additional oxidizer is the only way Hogdons was able to achieve the desired results.

here is the MSDS poop, as published by Hogdons:


oh and here is Mako's writeup on the chemistry of BP and Petroleum products

hope this helps
prof marvel

General Discussion / Re: Cabelas
« on: April 07, 2017, 09:16:06 PM »
Profit is what makes companies stay in business and a 3% profit is a small cushion to rely on if things hit a downturn. A 3% profit can quickly become a 3% loss I would prefer a larger margin to have more room when things go bad

It isn't greed to state that companies that lose money, public or private, go out of business. Black powder firearms are a luxury item and so more likely to be impacted by economic trends. if the economy  is tight and people are worried about their job they still pay the rent buy food and keep the electric on but they might not buy a new 1851

Everything else you mentioned is critical to driving a business but without money to keep the lights on and pay those good employees how long would they be employed? How long would a Cabelas stay in business, public or private, losing 150 million a year?

Do not misunderstand: I do not object to making a profit; My point is the "new breed of greed" I have observed over the last 20 years of INVESTORS who insist on "double digit ROI" quarter to quarter.  But I should have been clearer, that sort of return comes out to - 20-30%
return annually.  That sort of demand completely ignores the reality of how a store (for example) operates, and depends upon the "greater fool theory". 

These INVESTORS ,  I think,  have been spoiled by the insane returns of the boom years in tech companies . See Dutch Bulb Bubble.

I think that much of the Loss Cabelas is experiencing can be attributed, in my opinion to "too much/ too fast expansion" . The Corp planners apparently expected the remarkable run on sporting goods to continue unabated, without any thought to "what exactly" would support the
long term....

SO, just some thoughts from the balcony, having seen such dumb shit happen too often over the years. Few seem to learn from history,
and bosses seldom (if ever) listen to observation from the troops. All too often I have pointed out "potholes in the road" to management,
and ben told to "sit down and shut up".

It should speak volumes to anybody at a management level, to see that some people are making a living by buying BP revolvers at Cabelas on sale, and parting them out on ebay...  I would file this phenomenon under "unintended consequences" like the Snake Bounty in India.

I do hope Cabelas comes out of this ok. They would be sorely missed.
prof marvel

Walkers & Dragoons / Re: Another nice holster
« on: April 07, 2017, 06:20:11 PM »
Now I need to figure how to carry two Walkers at the same time without tipping over.

Hire the famous gun bearer, Gunga Bin


prf mvl

Police Models / here's one-
« on: April 07, 2017, 06:10:12 PM »
Here's an uberti 1862 police in .36
Not mine, just throwing out there for those who want one


prf mvl

Police Models / Re: 4 1/2 or 5 1/2
« on: April 05, 2017, 06:11:49 PM »
Richard, Richard, Richard, if you have never fired bp out of that 1911 you haven't lived. Now that's a hoot. <={

Even better is the looks from all the other unsuspecting shooters!   :-H

prof marvel

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