Author Topic: 4-Screw Frame Colt 1860 Pattern Pistols  (Read 3370 times)

Offline Long Johns Wolf

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4-Screw Frame Colt 1860 Pattern Pistols
« on: April 20, 2016, 08:42:07 AM »
Centaure Cavalry 1st variation 7,5" barrel
# 1st sub-variation: white background #490 from 1961
# 3rd sub-variation: blue background (mock-up)
Long Johns Wolf
« Last Edit: January 26, 2018, 09:05:17 PM by Captainkirk »

Offline Captainkirk

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Re: 4-Screw Frame Colt 1860 Pattern Pistols
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2016, 11:02:02 AM »
A beautiful piece indeed!
I assume all of your Centaures are unfired?
"You gonna pull those pistols, or whistle Dixie?"

Offline Long Johns Wolf

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Re: 4-Screw Frame Colt 1860 Pattern Pistols
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2016, 01:49:04 AM »
I cannot say for sure, Captainkirk,
Because they were all pre-owned. I own a few that look unturned and unfired.
Remember the factory ceased producing the Centaures in early summer 1973.
This Cavalry 1st variation 1st sub-variation with the 7,5" barrel has definitively seen some action but not by me.
Below one is a Cavalry 2nd variation 1st sub-variation.
These 2nd variation Cavalries all have 8" barrels, not a 7,5" ones like the early pistols from the early 1960s.
These later ones were made in 1971 only in two sub-variations.
The 1st sub-variations like the pictured one have their pair of 4th screws almost flush with the frame.
Paden and I doubt that they ever came with a shoulder stock.
Long Johns Wolf

Offline Long Johns Wolf

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Re: 4-Screw Frame Colt 1860 Pattern Pistols
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2016, 06:49:23 AM »
Another 4-screw frame Centaure of the 2nd variation. This time a 2nd sub-variation.
Compared to the 1st sub-variation These variants have the protroding 4th pair of screws and usually come with a matching shoulder stock.
Below pictured #F11103 from 1971 was liberated in April 2011 cased and with a few accessories at a German gun show.
At that time I was led to believe that this variant was sold with or without shoulder stock.
Based on the SURVEY data available back then #F11103 was the only recorded variant over here.
However, that is not the end of the story.
In December 2013 a Swiss FROCS phoned from Belgium and told me about a deal he was about to close. It  included a 2nd gen Colt Buntline and a plain Jane RNMA from 1978 together a shoulder stock #F11103.
I congratulated but did not pay any more attention to the details till i entered his data into the master SURVEY spreadsheet of the Centaure & FROCS website www.1960nma.org ... noted two S/Ns #F11103 ... and saw the light.
I advised him that he could no close the deal as is but that I would want to relieve him of the the shoulder stock.
Because a family reunion will always overrule a sale of an 3-screw RNMA and a shoulder stock with its S/N not matching the RNMA.
Which he accepted under the condition that I got him an Italian shoulder stock for his RNMA.
Of course, I complied with that request.
So, after 40 years the Cavalry pistol and the matching shoulder stock were finally united and live happily together ever since.
Long Johns Wolf

Offline Captainkirk

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Re: 4-Screw Frame Colt 1860 Pattern Pistols
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2016, 09:30:38 PM »
Congrats on reuniting a long-lost family!
I really admire your Centaures. I hope some day the planets will align and I will get my mitts on one!
"You gonna pull those pistols, or whistle Dixie?"

Offline Long Johns Wolf

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Re: 4-Screw Frame Colt 1860 Pattern Pistols
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2016, 02:15:17 AM »
Thanks for your kind words, Captainkirk.
There is one currently on auction over at GB's: check Centennial Army.
It's a Centaure RNMA 3rd Variation.
Good luck,
Long Johns Wolf

Offline Captainkirk

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Re: 4-Screw Frame Colt 1860 Pattern Pistols
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2016, 10:01:05 PM »
Thanks for your kind words, Captainkirk.
There is one currently on auction over at GB's: check Centennial Army.
It's a Centaure RNMA 3rd Variation.
Good luck,
Long Johns Wolf
No, thank YOU for sharing your beautiful collection and some of the history behind the Centaures.
I will check GB and see if it stays in my tax bracket!
"You gonna pull those pistols, or whistle Dixie?"

Offline G Dog

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Re: 4-Screw Frame Colt 1860 Pattern Pistols
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2016, 01:46:18 PM »
Yes, thanks Long John.  I’ve learned a lot about Centaures from your posts.  Sure do like those pictures.

Offline sourdough

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Re: 4-Screw Frame Colt 1860 Pattern Pistols
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2020, 03:39:16 PM »
(Warning: picture heavy!)

Centennial Arms of Chicago IL imported a lot of Centaure revolvers in the early 1960's when they, Navy Arms, and a few other importers tried to cash in on the Centennial of the American Civil War when it was in its heyday. These photos were lifted from a GunBroker auction a while back and the seller was a FreddieBear1 as ascertained by the GB watermark on some of the photos. The photos were saved by me with the original .jpg filenames and are presented in the same order as seen on the auction site.

Like the OP, this is a Centaure 1860 Army .44 full-fluted cylinder that has been marked Centennial Trade Mark "1960 NEW MODEL ARMY" on top of the barrel reading L to R. The Centaure unicorn is not easily seen on the forward left side of the frame, but it is there if one can enhance the photo. The bottom of the backstrap is marked "MADE IN BELGIUM".






































These are two examples of Centennial Arms advertising in the June 1962 issue of Guns Magazine. I like those prices! It is just two examples of pricing and variability of revolvers available then.

Note that the full-fluted 1860 Army is described as the "Wade Hampton Model". This is where Centennial Arms shines historically as Wade Hampton, an officer in the US Army at the time of Colt's development of the 1860 Army Model, caught Colt's ear by suggesting the full-fluted cylinder as a means of reducing the weight of Colt's new developement to bring the weight of the new revolver in line with the 1851 Navy .36 revolver. Hampton later sided with the Confederacy and I believe was made a Brigadier General. Charles W. Pate's book The Colt Model 1860 Army Revolver corroborates this somewhere in the discussion about full-fluted cylinders.






Regards,

Jim
« Last Edit: July 14, 2020, 03:42:18 PM by sourdough »

Offline sourdough

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Re: 4-Screw Frame Colt 1860 Pattern Pistols
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2020, 02:47:54 PM »
1960 Colt Army Belgian Centaure sold at GB auction 06/21/20 for $1225.









Regards,

Jim


Offline ShotgunDave

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Re: 4-Screw Frame Colt 1860 Pattern Pistols
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2020, 04:43:18 PM »
Nice find of a beautiful pistol. The Centaure guns are really something.
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Offline Captainkirk

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Re: 4-Screw Frame Colt 1860 Pattern Pistols
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2020, 07:49:33 PM »
Out of my tax bracket, tho...
"You gonna pull those pistols, or whistle Dixie?"

Offline ShotgunDave

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Re: 4-Screw Frame Colt 1860 Pattern Pistols
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2020, 08:32:43 PM »
Out of my tax bracket, tho...

Oh yeah, mine too.

I'll have to be content with the Italian cousins.
"Never trust quotes from the internet"
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