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Messages - drjldavis

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Remingtons / More on Witloe Remington Revolvers
« on: July 03, 2016, 09:16:01 PM »
Thanks to Dan Mentzer at Horst Auction House I was able to acquire Witloe Lee #5. This was the first Witloe with a serial number lower than #500. Since there are no records available it has been assumed that serial numbers started at #500 since these are the only numbers that have shown up in 20 years of collecting and researching. There are currently 45 revolvers on the registry list, all with #500 thru #624 for 1st Generation revolvers and #700 thru #735 for 2nd Generation Revolvers. It appears that all 2nd Generation revolvers are steel framed with the exception of #700 (Lane's prototype) which has a Bronze frame with target sights. Other Bronze frames in 2nd Gen are numbered with a "B" prefix, none of these with target sights. There are also three revolvers discovered that are "Sample" models and ae so stamped on the butt. Two rough castings, one Lee & one Grant, have also been discovered.

I also was able to win Lee Model #510, NIB, at a Rock Island Auction Last weekend. I am still looking for a Lee Model with a 6" barrel and a Grant Model. Contact me if you run across either of these.

Captain Kirk, do you remember whether or not any of the Grants sold on GB?  I missed these.  Do you remember anything about the prices?

Witloe Precision Inc Remington Revolver
It has been a couple of years since I last posted about the Witloe 'Grant" and "Lee" Models of the Remington New Model Army produced by Witloe Precision Inc. of Collingdale, PA. I am still interested in finding any of these either 1st or 2nd Generation. From these postings over the years I have found over thirty five of these and RPRCA has been able to add twelve to its collection.

The "Grant" has a steel frame and the"Lee" is bronze. These are almost exact copies of the original Remington New Model Army except the the frame screws go in from the right side instead of the left. This was done deliberately to discourage counterfeiting an original.

Over the last twenty years I seem to be the only person collecting these and the only person who is buying them. People contact me wanting me to buy one or evaluate it. Since I am the only person I know who has actually bought a few of these I have pretty much set the price.

There is a misconception that because something is rare that it is valuable. The value of a collectable firearm is determined by Supply and Demand. The Supply of the Witloe revolvers is pretty much set as to number produced. I had one person contact me about a Lee Model that the owner wanted to auction. I knew of this revolver and had told the owner that I would Insure it for around $1500 but that I did not think that he could sell it at that time for more than $500-$700 if that much. The person who contacted me was merely trying to position himself between me and the owner before he acquired the gun himself. Long story short he bought the gun for $1300. Needless to say he still has it and cannot sell it for anywhere near that price.

I mention this because even though I am interested in finding out where these revolvers are and how many still exist I am also interested in purchasing them if they are unusual. I have paid all the way from $395 to $750. The higher pice ones were cased and 2nd Generation. There were only around thirty five of these produced. I am particularly interested in purchasing the "Grant" Models at this time but want to get info, particularly the serial #, on as many as possible
bprevolver is online now   

Colts / Re: ASM carbine
« on: October 25, 2013, 11:43:39 AM »
Farmer Ted, did you buy this Dragoon or is it still there?  If you are not interested in it let me know where it is.  I just sold one of these with steel hardware stock, complete with holster for $1395.  I currently have another on GI except with anodized brass hardware stock also for $1395(price raised from 1295).  I sold just a steel hardware Dragoon stock for $1000 with the buyer making the offer.  Actually, over the years I have found the brass hardware Dragoon stocks to be more rare that the steel, but collectors seem to prefer the steel hardware.

Pocket Revolvers / Re: 1849 shorty
« on: October 25, 2013, 11:17:38 AM »
Sackettboy, that 1851 3rd Model Dragoon is a somewhat rare variation.  It has the flip up rear sight but not cut for shoulder stock.  I have so far identified seventeen variations of the replica 1851 3rd Model Dragoon.

Pocket Revolvers / Re: Baby Dragoon
« on: October 25, 2013, 11:10:37 AM »
I have not been on the forums for quite a while but just happened to catch this posting.  jlb43 I just hope you have not done anything to your Hopkins & Allen Baby Dragoon.  You have a very, very rare marking with the Hopkins & Allen.  I have only been aware(never seen except pictures) of one other Hopkins & Allen marked revolver in 20yrs of research. 

It was made by Armi San Marco.  ASM was the only manufacturer of the small framed Dragoons and Pocket Models until the late 1970's-early 1980's.  Another way to identify the ASM and Uberti small frame revolvers is that the ASM uses the short frame version with rectangular cylinder stops and Uberti uses the long frame version with oval cylinder stops.  Your revolver is the short frame with rectangular cylinder stops.

I try to keep track of prices on the more collectable revolvers and am being really nosey, but what did you pay for this revolver?  I would be trying to buy this if it hasn't been messed up, even if it has been altered, except that at 80yrs old I am now trying to reduce the size of the RPRCA collection rather than increase it.  This would be a welcome addition to that collcection.

The Witloe Precision Revolvers / "Witloe" Remington New Model Army
« on: January 14, 2013, 05:32:08 PM »
Wanted, any information concerning "Witloe Precision, Inc.". They made a replica Remington 1858 New Model Army revolver.  Two models were made, the “Grant” and the “Lee”.  The “Grant” had a steel frame and the “Lee” had a bronze frame.  Also, revolvers marked just "Witloe".  I wish to purchase any of these as well.

Confederate Revolvers / Re: S&G on the cheap!
« on: April 13, 2012, 04:14:48 PM »

Is your Schneider & Glassick for sale?  I might be interested.

Jim Davis

Colts / Re: Rock Island Auctions Acquisitions
« on: October 29, 2011, 04:30:56 PM »
Does the plating on the 1847 Walker appear to be factory nickel or aftermarket?  Are the markings and cylinder engraving sharp are show some buffing?  This is the first nickel plated Walker I have seen and may need to add it to the 1847 Walker variations list.

Colts / Re: ID Italian Colt
« on: October 26, 2011, 10:24:48 PM »
Fingers is correct in that High Standard did not make any 1960 Army replicas.  They only made replicas of the Confederate revolvers and not very many.  The HS marking is one of the yet to be positively identified marking.  RPRCA has an 1861 Navy with this HS marking.  The 1860 Army verifies the fact that this was an active importer/distributor. 

The HS is normally the manufacturer's logo for Herbert Schmidt, a West Germany company located in Ostheim/Rhon.  However, this company is only known for single action revolvers and not percussion revolvers.  There is some evidence that there was a connection between Schmidt and George E. Rose Co., an importer.  The only revolver thus far observed with the Geroco marking is the 1847 Walker.  With what is currently known is that Schmidt also purchased Italian made revolvers and resold these, primarily in Europe, with the HS logo.  Since these Italian made revolvers were being purchased by a German manufacturer they most likely would not have any Italian manufacturer's marking but would have all the usual Italian proofs, date codes, etc.

In twenty years I have only seen one such marking which I bought.  This 1860 Army is only the third one that has surfaced.  A few years back another was on one of the Forums.

« on: August 09, 2011, 09:56:29 AM »
Depends on who the manufacturer is, Uberti or Armi San Paolo (Euroarms).  Not everyone is a shooter and not everyone is a collector.  I approach the replicas strictly from a 20yr. collector's point of view.  I no longer shoot.

I do not recall saying anything about not shooting a Lyman.  To shoot an original firearm in the box like the Gregorelli & Uberti when there were probably fewer than 3000 ever produced just does not seem like sound economics from a collector's point of view when there are current manufactured Remington revolvers available.

Colts / Re: Eagle Arms
« on: August 08, 2011, 03:14:10 PM »
The Eagle Arms, of course, is the importer.  In twenty years I have only come across three of these and bought two of them.  Yours is only the fourth to surface.  Eagle Arms is a name that has been used by many companies over the years so to get any history is near impossible.  All have been 1860 Army revolvers with Full Fluted cylinder and were dated 1974, so this indicates a limited offering by this company.  The triangle logo is interesting in itself.  I would have to categorize these as rare.

Confederate Revolvers / Re: CH Rigdon Augusta Revolvers
« on: August 08, 2011, 02:56:23 PM »
Fingers, I am real curious about how you added the extra cylinder stops and was the timing altered with the extra cylinder stops????

I have updated the list of Confederate replica.  I added the Leech & Rigdon currently being produced by Uberti but with engraved cylinder (God only knows why).  I also added two more markings being found on the Tucker & Sherrard.

Remingtons / Re: Remmy Forum
« on: August 08, 2011, 02:03:16 PM »
I think it is a great idea.  Always like sharing information about these revolver.

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